Pluto Opposite Moon Transit

Pluto Opposite Moon Transit

Pluto Opposite Moon Transit

Pluto opposite Moon transit is affecting the Cancer sign from 2008 to 2024. This transit creates a gradual build-up in the intensity of the emotional life to a point where something has to give. Like all Pluto transits the build-up can last for a year or more but eventually the tension or pressure forces some major life change, and with the Moon, this will be in related to behavior patterns, compulsions, habits and most often in close relationships or with female family members.

Pluto represents powerful forces that you seem to have no control over, circumstances that just happen to you. This occurs in order to evolve to a higher level, and with the opposition these events or people can be very challenging and involve confrontations, ultimatums or extreme pressure. Something has to change in your life so it’s a good time to look deep inside, Pluto will probably give you little choice in the matter anyway. If you are comfortable with what you seen this transit might mean you are forced to defend or fight for something related to your Moon like family, the home or women.

People with their Moon between 3 to 12 Cancer will be feeling this Pluto opposite Moon transit in 2011 – 2012, just like Prince William (Moon 5 Cancer). Did he face pressure to tie the knot? William’s cousin Princess Beatrice also has Moon at 5 Cancer. In 2004 Claudia Schiffer had transiting Pluto opposite Moon and she gave birth to her second child. She also felt the darker side of Pluto by being harassed at her home and via mail from a stalker.

A more extreme example of Pluto pressure was felt by Brook Shields who also had Pluto opposite Moon in 2005. This was the year she went public in magazines and on The Oprah Winfrey Show about her battle with post natal depression which she shared in her book  Down Came the Rain. This was a positive expression of her Pluto transit, the Moon also represent publicity.

But then came dark Pluto in the form of Tom Cruise with public condemnation of her use of psychiatry and antidepressant medication. Brook then showed the ruthless side of Pluto and fought back, telling Cruise he should  “stick to fighting aliens” and “let mothers decide the best way to treat postpartum depression.” She then went on to stick it up him in an essay she felt compelled to write, War of Words.

Pluto Opposite Moon Transit Dates

Cancer decan 1 – 2008 to 2013.
Cancer decan 2 – 2013 to 2018.
Cancer Decan 3 – 2018 to 2024.

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108 Responses

  1. mermaidsreality says:

    Well, Jamie, it is Pluto in Can 3 deg., in 3rd house here…definitely can relate to what you write about the transit. My old mother has been in the process of transition to death for many months, and it seems the process will be longer. Pluto.. (oh, she is ok – in good hands). And on a smaller, more concrete scale, a comment I made about Pluto in David Icke’s chart contributed to the rise of quite a long debate which eventually resulted in crashing your server at the time. I am sure that is not going to happen in this case..:) Thank you for sharing Brook’s story with us. Cool how she held on to what really matters, namely how to overcome postpartum depression.

    • Jamie says:

      Hard Pluto transits to the Moon do seem to show on our mothers. We’re on a dedicated server now and the problem wasn’t Mr. Icke, just getting more traffic these days.

      • mermaidsreality says:

        Jamie, that is wonderful! Congrats on the new server.

      • uberqueenofwands says:

        Hi Jamie… PLuto Moon… woe woe and thrice woe!! Its part of my natal stellium as a conjunction. The jugular is always present!! Some years ago hell came to call when PLuto in Scorpio knocked on the stellium squaring the whole lot. At that time Saturn was in Aquarius too… nailed to the fixed cross one is forced to descend into hell and find The Other by way of transformation. The only thing which didn’t give me grief was my mother! The rest of the world excelled however.
        I had a struggle to keep my home, body, soul etc together. Depression was the order of the day.
        For times of such transformation a foray into Liz Green’s work is compulsory – also Jeff Greene’s ( I think mentioned elsewhere on other posts) work n PLuto in two volumes. JUng’s work on ALchemy also truly life saving. Once you’ve had a hefty bout of PLuto themark is forever there. YOU are changed. Interesting too that while PLuto was in Scorpio, my life experience was very scorpionic and everyone I seemed to meet was a Scorpio! It was ridiculous!! That was the element PLuto brought in every respect.

        Alas, I’ve taken a few, what I call “Hallmark” type astrology sites/ astrologers to task who WON”T use the word DEATH alongside PLuto. Mostly because I have seen a lot of actual death occur under a PLuto moon transit, PLuto tr Asc etc, opp Sun/Asc and so on. But DEATH has become a weakness in many eyes!!

        PLuto challenges our beliefs on death by bringing it to us in one form or another – either ego transformation at the least to the final breath and the passing on transformation at the other end.

        I saw an eclipse on the natal moon pluto in the 4th of a baby who “left home” aged a year. His parents were left to examine their relationship to death…
        In this age, in the developed world are we feeling immortal a bit prematurely? The relationship to death has changed dramatically from say our Victorian ancestors and the survivors of 2 world wars due to relatively longer peace times and medicine.

        So what is our relationship to physical death now? And emotional endings – also PLuto Moon and depression – the hallmark of PLuto moon??

        Liz Green made the statement that depression was suppressed anger. Its a very good point. Depression has become a pharmaceutically treated issue mostly – even though it offers the chance of a very creative inner/outer experience.
        It seems Brooke Shields got ANGRY to assuage her depression and maybe it was nothing to do with Cruise’s remarks but a rage against her mother whi had engineered her life? And here was this issue of motherhood for her to examine first hand.

        I have recently done the charts of two people with prominent Gemini (asc and a stellium) who had a rough time under PLuto’s tr thru’ Sag. Both of them are making disastrous marriages in haste to try and stem the tides which were unleashed under the transit. Neither of them could hang with the process. Its a big ask! Once PLuto has visited, it seems because it is off the actual triggers the work is not necessarily done. Like if you have survived cancer, you need to keep having checkups for years and years.

        Of particular interest to me are scenarios where people seem to live Teflon coated lives! My beloved sister was one such person. I couldn’t understand that when PLuto opposed her Sun and squared her asc and her moon for and tr Saturn conjunct her sun there didnt seem to be an outwards sign.
        However, one day she said she felt “a bit flat”
        Then she got a cough. It didn’t clear up. Several trips to incompetent doctors later she was diagnosed with incurable lung cancer.
        What came up betwen the diagnosis and her death was that she had become completely cowed by our bully of a mother, married a baby faced bully who manipulated the breath out of her, been in love with her childhood sweetheart all her life and never said…. kissed a soldier once spontaneously and felt her life was all wrong but went back to serve it (Virgo moon…) , never mustered the courage to break her own ranks… and died. Transformation not complete in this life. But PLuto Moon served not just for her but her husband (also a Gemini with very similar transits) and her kids.
        Life….

        • AlterEgoTrip says:

          With a personal note, I myself have experienced a change in life under a Pluto opposition to ASC, in recent years, now as the influence starts moving away, I examine that the has to be some change in the relationship that one has to the body in these times.

          I was given the “incurable” diagnosis, but for Asthma: Two years ago, I kicked out the medical profession out of my life… at least, I am very guarded now about what they define as incurable and what asthma itself really is, but if I had not gone through this trail and hardship I would not have discovered what I have, and for that, in spite of everything I am utterly grateful and happy to be alive.

          I think in this case, in spite of everything, healing has to come on many levels for something to make a difference.. and listening to the body and what it needs is a part of that experience. Had I not done so, I would have suffered much more.

          • Uberqueenofwands says:

            Yes, Pluto is a base chakra planet and the base chakra is where life is rooted.
            Do you know what the cause of your asthma is?

          • AlterEgoTrip says:

            “Ignorance” is my only conclusion. You see if I had understood more about the entire balance of things and not just allowing the doctors to “treat” the symptoms I would have been more understanding that with everything toxic put into the system, that it causes problems for the totality of the immune system’s ability to defend itself.

            It started off with a bout of pneumonia, which happened under the last transit of Pluto to my natal ASC from the DSC- but the psychic atmosphere was in this way:

            “Taking on the energies other people’s problems, and not facing my own” which is an important clue for anyone working as a kind of adviser. The body is the symptom, the Progressed chart shows my critical moments coming as The ASC progressed into Leo, at 0 degrees, and when a progressed Sun Opposite Moon took place. (setting the dominoes) and then a movement of Pluto back over the ASC/DEC harbored the blow of serious illness, transformation of the home environment and the illness and eventual death of my cat (later on).. who took on the energies in the environment (and sadly deflected them away from me I suspect).

            Of course the partnership between my husband and I became stressed out as well, but I don’t know if it was more due to the illness or the death of our pet or the new job, since I have to realize he too was going through that same transit. His ASC progressed and changed in the next year as well.. to Leo.

          • uberqueenofwands says:

            I’m interested n the pneumonia.
            I had it as a child an nearly died. But still have amazing memories of creeping bliss as I was fading away. I think it would be my chosen way to die if I had to die from illness.
            The lungs process grief. I’ve noticed people with breathing problems often have heavy burdens and too much to convey – its a kind of emotional dyslexia.

            On another note – many cereal based foods create damp in the body. When I am in SA, for some reason CApe Town has a lot of mould in its atmosphere and grains are a disaster for me. HAve you considered checking your blood type? If type O then grains are difficult and can contribute to asthma. Quinoah is good, as not a grain.

          • AlterEgoTrip says:

            Blood type A+

            Grain sensitivities? I’m staying away from almost any overly processed grains- nothing bleached, most everything organic, and lastly not so dependent upon wheat. There is spelt and rye, oat and such.. I am naturally a rice eater; we do also eat quinoa here ;)

            I’m thinking when the body has to deal with a flood of death, such as when the death of microbial life killed by antibiotics, if the system is already flawed and can’t get rid of it, this remains until it can be removed.

            With the lungs, the research with an independent person, shown he “cured” his asthma by bombarding it with antibiotics stronger than one needs to “cure” TB.. that is massive and toxic stuff.

            But my understanding of fasting is, if you have this bacteria or fungi in the body, a fast will give the immune system a break to get rid of it by not feeding it, and by activating the immune system into “alert” mode.. due to not having to process food… the energy is used to remove things, and if done properly, I believe is a sort of panacea for many conditions.. and imbalances such as addictions.

            But my disclaimer is, just because it worked for me, does not mean it would work for anyone else. It was also a great spiritual cleansing.. and a really opening experience which was like taking a direct train to a certain clear state of mind that had taken much yoga and self control. Its there without it but under a fast, its easily accessible energies… and awareness I can’t begin to explain.

            But on a purely physical level to be able to purge out the remains of the antibiotics was very helpful.. (I realize they stay in the body a long long time after one stops taking them..and I had not taken any for 2 years before my first long term fasts and could smell them as they were expelled)

            The re-population of intestinal flora was done with local fruits and veg and local wild foods, home made sour dough bread, local honey, kimchi and miso.

            I think it was a very holistic process.

            The pneumonia bout wasn’t just one, it started off with one, but under 3 months 2 more bouts.. and it was difficult because I didn’t have this bliss of death- although I did long ago have a case of bronchitis which felt like that.. usually caused for me by pesticides or tobacco smoke.

            In Sweden I have not have this problem until the pneumonia because I can control my environment much better and don’t have to work in places where people spray things.

        • Jamie says:

          “Alas, I’ve taken a few, what I call “Hallmark” type astrology sites/ astrologers to task who WON”T use the word DEATH alongside PLuto. Mostly because I have seen a lot of actual death occur under a PLuto moon transit, PLuto tr Asc etc, opp Sun/Asc and so on. But DEATH has become a weakness in many eyes!!”

          I ‘try not to use the word in the post either so it doesn’t sound too morbid or frighten people new to astrology. But we get into the subject in the comments. Was chatting with Marina last night about Prince Wiliam with Pluto opposite his Moon now. The death of his mother was a big theme in the whole royal wedding show. His mums engagement ring, married in the church where her funeral was.

          My eldest was born with Pluto in the 12th just a coulpe of degrees from the AC. It went retro over the AC in her first year and I was scared. She was OK but both her mother and I came close to death a few times, very dark time.

          • uberqueenofwands says:

            I too PLuto in the 12th (with everything else…) had 2 close encounters with death before the age of 8.

            A great facilit of PLuto in the 12th is power of recouperation. Knock us down and we recover with the strength of an atom bomb!! We have deep reserves.

            With rgd to PLuto and Moon aspects – depending in which signs, Mutable, Cardinal, Fixed they fall will also dictate the backdrop for the drama.
            e.g in fixed signs its about the basic – “There is OTHER”
            in mutable its more about bodily survival – being able to make your way i life. I’ve seen PLuto Moon in Virgo a lot – it must be a very common conjunction with people in their 40s now and the challenge must be keeping body and soul together against very difficult financial times ??/ Also see it with people who are TERRIFIED of not having money! Obsessions with diet, eco stuff etc
            Cardinal PLuto Moon represent s different pictures -choices, action, appearance and keeping up appearances but choosing above all.

            PLuto Moon aspects in women in saturn cycles – or half cycles have fertility issues… Men with mother issues somehow seekig partners to “redeem” the mother…

            Where is Freud when you need him!!

          • Jamie says:

            Yep, I’m a Pluto Moon, about 12 degrees but as part of a stellium it comes closer. I have one or two obsessions and habits :)

          • rob says:

            a Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother

  2. Jan says:

    thanks Jamie! Great example of Brooke Shields. I won’t ever have the opposition, but I will have the square in orb when Pluto reaches mid Capricorn!

    • Jamie says:

      I had that about 12 years ago so will have more to add when I write it up. Twice as many of us should go through that one.

  3. proudmum says:

    Jamies,

    congrats on new server so I really hope and request to start an analysis page on Imran Khan chart Thanx,

    • Jamie says:

      Will be doing Imran along with the other candidates when the election is called. That way if will have an election chart to work with, same as I do for other countries elections.

  4. Rachel says:

    Interesting! Pluto transited my moon 3 times as it went retrograde during 77-78. My mother underwent a spiritual and emotional crisis and became an extreme born again christian. I effectively ‘lost’ her as a confidante then because all my teen problems, including months of post viral depression, were seen as something that I had to be ‘saved’ to solve or demonic possession rather than a medical condition. She used to be quite witchy but I would come home to find my room purged of ‘evil’ objects including the astrology books she gave me.She infected me with a sense of hopelessness because she believed in imminent apocalypse. I tried to join her but couldn’t. I became confused and mistrustful of her and grieved the loss of our relationship for many years. What happens when he squares the moon I wonder?

    • Jamie says:

      That’s a good example of the extreme influence Pluto had on your Moon (mother). I somethings think square can be more challenging, but I guess with these Pluto transits a lot depends on you age at the time.

      • Rachel says:

        Once you’ve had a hefty bout of Pluto the mark is forever there. YOU are changed…I have seen a lot of actual death occur under a PLuto moon transit, PLuto tr Asc etc, opp Sun/Asc and so on. But DEATH has become a weakness in many eyes!! PLuto challenges our beliefs on death by bringing it to us in one form or another – either ego transformation at the least to the final breath and the passing on transformation at the other end.

        quoting Uberqueen of wands hope this works…this gives me chills. Pluto was sq my sun last October with a full moon in Scorpio when I became seriously ill with septicaemia from a very scorpionic UTI/kidney infection. 3 weeks in hospital certainly gives one time to think and be grateful for getting out alive. By the time Pluto was directly sq sun I was recuperating and definitely transformed. I’m not totally sure of my asc, but it’s one side or the other of my sun, so wondering whether the degree Pluto was in when I got ill might nail it? So looking forward to Pluto sq moon in 2014…forewarned is forearmed I guess!

        • Rachel says:

          trying to quote didn’t work – sorry UQW -and respect!

          • uberqueenofwands says:

            No problem!
            You sound like you really went through the mill. Awful.
            Pluto forces us to take a reality check on our views of death. I tink the thing is to get it out of the “morbid” frame.
            I had to deal very hands on with the death of a really close friend during my Pluto onslaught… a trip to the mortuary etc etc What a shock, to see someone I had been with only hours before almost unrecogniseable. As I investigated her death astrologically i dipped into a book called The Astrology of Death. Its a Vedic book and I don’t do vedic astrology except I do know it can be highly accurate.
            Anyway, the first para said to the effect, if you knew today would be the last day of your life wouldn’t you live it differently?
            I know its not realistic to live everyday in total harmony with everything but its good to find a few minutes to get into the deep centre…
            If we don’t get depth in this life, we haven’t lived it.
            The presence of other planetary heavyweights may give clues to how your future PLuto/moon will unfold.
            I endured Pluto square sixfold stellium with Saturn opposite for what seemed like several lifetimes. It was a sort of paralysis of time. I locked myself away, eked out a meagre living and studied alchemy. I also had one of the most profound sexual relationships of my life (PLuto is verrrry sexy) and had a lot of very disturbing dreams.
            The weird thing was, when it was all over, deaths, misery, loss etc and I walked out of the underworld, what replaced it was superficially “better” but not fulfilling. It was like I had been swimming for my life in tar and was finally out of it, panting on a dry shore.
            PLuto gave me a dimension I am profoundly indebted for even though it HURT.

  5. SunShine says:

    I have the moon at 5 degrees in the 6th house and Mars at 2 degrees in the 12th. Since the eclipse that highlighted this opposition in 2010, my life has been nothing short of hell…undiagnosed MAJOR health issues, conflicts in the home, depression because of my health, women coming against me that barely know me, and horrifying fears about my children having to deal with my health issues leading to day to day emotional breakdowns. I wish I knew when I would see some relief from these issues. I am having a cardiac ablation on 6 June…I hope I am not running myself straight into more issues with the eclipse in Cancer in July…

    • Jamie says:

      That July eclipse will probably highlight any Pluto transits we have at the moment. Looking forward to see what Marina comes up with for that one. Interesting your linking health issues from the Moon to emotional health and depression, same at what Brook Shields went through. I experienced physical then mental illness with Pluto square my Moon. Moon rules body fluids like and lymph blood, and family traits, inherited conditions.

      • SunShine says:

        I would love to hear Marina’s take on this. I am very nervous about the cardiac ablation coming up as the docs cant seem to figure out what happened to me last summer(16 June 2010)(Pluto in the 12th= hidden enemies…(after excercising…lost ability to speak, swallow, bedridden for two months and that left eyesight impaired.I had a string of seizures following. All MRI’s were neg.)I also found out I was pregnant(more with the MOON) and suffered tremendously with the recovery process involving neurological and cardiac issues during the pregnancy.I have struggled for help and a diagnosis throughout the pregnancy while I have been recovering. Very emotional, very scary. (Pluto opp Moon) My beautiful baby girl is now 3 weeks old.The docs want to do an electro study of the heart to see why it is beating 150 plus because all cardiac tests have been neg as well as thyroid and a multitude of other tests. After searching for an answer medically and astrologically, feeling helpless over my own body (Pluto)I realized that as the stars reflect circumstances,maybe I did have some control …and should direct the energy of the houses (6th/twelth)elsewhere.I also felt a great need to reach out to others that are suffering. I now believe that it is possible to perhaps transfer the energy of the houses to another available house subject. (I.E From health to work…from hidden illness to compassion.) Even though I couldn’t see straight, I applied for an Army event planning position from home. I didnt know how I could function by I struggled and pushed my way through it while I continued to follow up through countless doc appts. It has worked so far. I have seen tremendous improvement in the last few months. I can even drive again. Any thoughts from anyone on the July 2011 eclipse and how it affects my chart? Pluto will also oppose my Saturn in the 6th in 2013…anyone had that transit yet? Love to you all…

        • SunShine says:

          I wanted to add that Pluto opposing the Moon is pretty tough with all subjects involved (Pluto=death/transformation, jealousy, power, sexuality) OPPOSING (Moon= emotions, health issues especially stomach issues, mothering issues, home and family issues) Any childhood issues may be revisited even if you think you dealt with that years ago. Any or all combinations of these subjects may come up, guess it depends on how much cleaning you have to do. I would suggest reading the book of Job again and to spend lots of time in prayer and meditation with a willingless to let go and learn. :)

        • Jamie says:

          Bit hard to get detail from that chart, but I see Moon opposite Mars, both square Pluto. That sounds like the biggest issue for you. That’s very potent energy, Mars Pluto can be destructive, all comes to Moon emotions and health.

          This solar eclipse is trine your Pluto so excellent for transformation of that energy, regenration of the body and health. Sounds like you are starting this process already, great.

    • WILL says:

      Dear Sunshine,
      Please give me your chart details. I have dabbled in Astrology for more than 11 years and although I am no expert I think you should give me a chance.

      • ShunShine says:

        Thanks Will! 1/25/75 Newport, AR (Jackson) 6:28 AM I would appreciate any insight…:)

        • WILL says:

          Dear Sunshine,
          With Saturn conj Moon in 12 cancer in the 11th house square pluto in libra the second house the focuss of your life among friends would be to care for them in a meaningful and penetrating way.The darkmoon,venus and mercury stellium in the 7th house would mean that you would be attracted to partners with a independant outlook and humanitarian values. Your Jupiter is conjunction Ceres and and trine the Saturn Moon conjunction in cancer gives you a charming and confident demeanour with a strong sense of purpose

          • WILL says:

            Dear Sunshine,
            The above interpretation is based on a 6.28 pm chart Sorry for the Boo boo. Will get back to you later when I’ve looked at the correct chart.

          • SunShine says:

            Thanks…looking for an opinion of what to expect from the July eclipse upon my chart.:)

  6. WILL says:

    Dear Jamie,
    The next time Moon will be opposition to Pluto will be on the 4 of June next month. As this will be on my Mum’s ascendant/descendant I wonder what it could mean for her. On the 15 of June last year she had a bad fall. She has been wheelchair dependant since then. After Mum came back to the nursing home from the hospital there was a lot of talk that she had sustained several major fractures to her arms and hips even though there has never been any x-rays showing these fractures. Although she has recovered from her fall many months ago she still is in a wheelchair.

    • Jamie says:

      So does mum have AC around 6 Cancer or Capricorn? I wouldn’t be too worried about the Moon transit because we get this every 28 days, more important if it were a Moon phase like new or full Moon.

  7. Charyl says:

    Lets see if I can post mom’s chart. She’s had pluto going over her capricorn mars in 9th oppositte moon/pluto cancer. Mars opposing moon is life is a battle. She’s also in a care home and 87 now and doing well although they had her on drugs for her sake and their protection. Boy if this isn’t the chart, I’m going to be embarassed. fingers crossed.

  8. Charyl says:

    It worked. Mom started working as a janitor 50ish for the pulp mill after dad died of a heart attack at 64. Then she got on with the School Board as a janitor too. So she tends to hallucinate that she’s still getting that spot on the table or cleaning whatever and wherever or just folding that napkin over and over as if it’s a focusing need. Like Brooke Shields mom has often pulled out all stops in her struggle to survive and that can hurt. My own pluto is a wide opposition 12 and 7 to my moon Aq. Leo.
    Knowing how hard life can be I do admire my mom’s hardiness for a pisces!
    I guess she really is an example of “and the strong will survive.” Grade 5, she’s self read and artist, bought herself a condo, guys and dances…
    Took care of her own mother and is waiting to see what 2012 brings.

    • Jamie says:

      Thanks for posting the chart, you didn’t leave anything out! :) I’ll add my version to simplify it. See the Neptune Yod which also makes Neptune the focus of the grand trine. Very strong, generous and healing spirit, especially with Neptune on Merak “This star is credited with increasing the power to get on in life”. Same story with that fighting Moon on Tejat Posterior “It gives force, energy, power and protection.” Venus breaks up that Moon Mars opposition which I think will help with the Pluto transit.

  9. Christoph says:

    Yes, I can definitely relate to this transit. Pluto opposed my moon (1 degree Cancer) in 2008-2009 and that was when the long fight to divorce my first wife finally ended. She delayed and delayed the divorce for 3 years but in 2009 the divorce was final, but while she fought me on it my life was full of stress. I’m so glad I won’t have to go through another Pluto-Moon opposition in this life.

    • Jamie says:

      Yeah, one’s enough! I seperated during Pluto square Moon too, and that did drag out for a while with delyas in selling our property.

      • Deborah says:

        I saw what you had written about Pluto square Moon in reference to delays in selling property. I am still going through this and have been going through this for the past year. Any idea when it will end? My health is suffering badly from the physical and mental stress and I so want to move from USA back to UK.
        Your artical is the first reerence to delays in selling property.
        Thanks much.

  10. DR.WASAM AL-SAIFI says:

    This period can be one of the most demanding emotional
    phases of your life, with the promise of great psychological
    growth. Whatever age you are, life demands that you grow
    up. Ask yourself the question: to what and to whom am I
    too attached? At the end of this period, you will surely have
    eliminated this attachment…you simply can’t afford it. This is
    a time to get rid of sentimentality and make deep changes in
    emotional relationships. All forms of dependence disappear,
    and for a time you will be out of your depth. Emotional,
    psychological and occult insights are gained at this time.
    Radical changes in family life may take priority over
    career matters now. This is a time when you must re-examine
    your emotional nature, especially because buried issues
    from the past come up to the surface now – often after years
    of forgetfulness. You will learn many lessons on the
    emotional battlefield as old feelings are brought to life, and
    this will teach you to trust in, and express, your feelings in a
    memotional restructuring, you can expect upheaval in your
    home environment. There is an emphasis on sewage
    problems, the cellar or foundations of the house, and there
    may be actual digging around the house to solve structural
    problems. Don’t take on more than you can handle,
    otherwise severe economic problems can result.This is a time of extreme emotional pressure which will be
    strongly felt in the working environment. This will affect
    females somewhat more than males and on a private level,
    more than public. It is essential to look at the foundations of
    things now. There can quite literally be problems with the
    foundations, floor and structure of the home or workplace.
    This may manifest as radical rebuilding or renewal
    processes.
    Something may be poisoning relationships
    amongst working colleagues, so it is important to get hidden
    issues into the open. This can be connected with the
    disappearance of colleagues to whom you were attached, or
    the arrival of new ones with whom you feel insecure. There
    may be problems with personal popularity on a professional
    level, and you may have to consider a complete change of
    loyalties. You can no longer invest your security in
    catmosphere of crisis in these areas. Some unpleasant
    changes may be unavoidable, and this can mean moving to
    a completely different environment. Parental influences on
    the career – particularly those of the mother – are eliminated
    at this time. You may find job satisfaction in social or
    psychological work.

  11. rob says:

    My dear Dr. Wasam – while, I have been within this Pluto opposite natal Moon influence for some time now, it has been amongst a cornucopia of other transiting aspects that are in many ways also radical and transformative, and so I have held back from comment, not wishing to give false impression – however, you could have written this ‘classical’ interpretation for myself through this time, and while its effects are not infact too disimilar from the preceeding 7-8 years experience, and one that I have become perhaps accustomed to by nature, your words would present a comprehensive account of my experiences at the hands of this most excitingly challenging prolonged dynamic (slight note of sarcasm there…!) – many thanks to you – whatever the deviations by detail, the gists are exact, but, one small sentence, which may perhaps be a typographical anomoly, almost made my (fairly non-existant) hair stand on end; it was this…..

    DR.WASAM AL-SAIFI: catmosphere of crisis in these areas. Some unpleasant .

    …..my beloved cat, Wizard, became ill with what 4 vets independantley described as a terminal illness some months ago and gave him only a few weeks to live – they suggested I have him put to sleep – being contrary by nature, knowing him fairly well, looking him in the eye and seeing his orbiting soul saying “look out for this bunch of monkeys dressed up as experts”, and, being fortunate in belonging to a circle of esteemed and wonderously gifted healers (each more so than I in every sense I hasten to add), I took it upon myself to oppose their morbid view and responded “No, get him to eat (he was in cat hospital at the time), he’ll be fine” – at which point I entreatied the good circle and they responded by securing Wizard’s full co-operation and recovery – the most pleasing effect of this successful intervention, beyond the restoration of young Wizzie’s complete and robust health, was the gobsmacked astonishment and dumbfounded expressions of amazement that spread across the physionognomy of each of the expert monkeys – marvellous….. ;)

    …..as an afternote I would add that, while the natal aspect applies, by hook and by crook, it is nevertheless a different matter altogether when experienced through transit……what a barrel of monkeys! And you Sir are a true gift……

    • rob says:

      I would like to add that the afforementioned circle of wonderous healers are practitioners of shamanic medicine, by which I mean to say that without the interventions of the spirits mixed with their combined and extensive experience in this field, the monkeys may well have been correct in their diagnosis – so much for alopathic blinkers

      here is the young fella…..

      • AlterEgoTrip says:

        Personally, I’m glad he’s ok and is healthy and well- and its great that you knew where to go and what to do. :)

        • Chris says:

          I too worship at the altar of Cat!

          (Also Moon 12 deg cancer so this Pluto opp. moon thingy is part of my reality as well…)

          It’s in my 8th house so hope that doesn’t mean any deaths (not me mum!),but hey can’t avoid the inevitable.

          • rob says:

            cool – we both have 8th house Moon in the Crab – are you also Scorpio rising? Can give us a natural vibe for the 8th….

          • Chris says:

            Hi Robster!,

            No my Moon is in my second house opp Pluto transitting in the 8th house -slowly gearing up to go over my vertex,Asteriod Lilith,Jupiter and North Node all 13-15 degrees Cap.

            My sun just squeaks into my 8th house also, but Pluto has already done his dance over that part for sure.

            My ascendant is 25/35 Taurus Yay! Algol-the rhythm!

  12. Leah says:

    Always interested in a moon pluto discussion, though I am one of the lucky ones with natal moon pluto aspects who gets to live these experiences for a lifetime rather than a transitional period. I like to think of moon pluto contacts of any aspect like a mirror into the self, I suppose especially the opposition would represent that but even with my natal trine there is always a constant and relentless self reflection into the parts of the self I would rather not acknowledge on an ego level.

    Pluto has been hovering around my moon’s south node for the past few years now with the promise to purge all the negative patterns accumulated over lifetimes. This has ultimately resulted in the birth of my son and forced me to examine my relationship with my own emotionally vacant mother. Vacant is probably an understatement for her condition but it’s all wrapped in the suppression and denial of the pain of her own severely traumatic experiences in early childhood that she has passed on to her children and that I have come realize she will take to the grave with her this lifetime.

    Also my relationship with his father has forced me to become not only aware of my own true emotional nature but to really get in touch with my innermost self in a way I never imagined possible, good and bad. And on with pluto’s ego death march, no stone left unturned.

    Death in the physical sense of the body has never really threatened or frightened me, living life on the fullest and deepest level by way of death of all that is false within, now that’s frightening.

    Fitting to add that our son was born with a tight stellium of moon, pluto, north node, and midheaven and also like myself has pluto square ascendant. His father has the natal moon pluto square and so here we are, one big happy moon pluto family.

    • Jamie says:

      Thanks Leah, can tell you have Sun trine Pluto, “Keeping their wonderfulness all to themselves would just be too mean!”

      • Leah says:

        Thanks.. there’s always an upside of course, I think many times the problem is knowing how to value the downside as well.

        What I meant to say when I originally saw this post was about a book I’m presently reading that my sister reffered to me; one she received from the author, Broken Open by Elizabeth Lesser, co-founder of Omega Institute and a spiritual seeker who has worked with some of the great spiritual leaders of our time.

        Anyhow, she read this particular book after the death of her fiance several years ago and the premise is essentially what the author has labeled the “phoenix processs”. Stories of people who in the face of great crises like death, illness and divorce used those experiences as vehicles to move forward as more complete persons, more self aware and alive and in touch with the feelings they are experiencing rather than avoiding or escaping from them and ending up in depression, addiction or other self inflicted pain.

        I think this is the true blessing of pluto, because what is taken away will be replaced, but by what, be it dark or light is ultimately up to the individual.

        Please excuse the poor writing, my little one now keeps me with little time to breathe, none the less form complete legible thoughts but I thought that the book related quite well to the topic of moon pluto struggles and may be helpful to people experiencing similar situations. It also made me wish there were a similar type of book based on transit or aspect experiences, telling both the stories and having the astrology to coincide.

  13. Jamie says:

    rob:

    My dear Dr. Wasam…you Sir are a true gift……

    Exactly, valuable words for everyone coming here looking for help with this transit.

  14. Jane says:

    uberqueenofwands:
    I have recently done the charts of two people with prominent Gemini (asc and a stellium) who had a rough time under PLuto’s tr thru’ Sag. Both of them are making disastrous marriages in haste to try and stem the tides which were unleashed under the transit. Neither of them could hang with the process. Its a big ask! Once PLuto has visited, it seems because it is off the actual triggers the work is not necessarily done. Like if you have survived cancer, you need to keep having checkups for years and years.

    I have a Gemini ascendent and 4 planets in Gemini (1st house), including the moon and sun. I can understand why those 2 people could not hang with the process. No disastrous marriage for me, but 2 disastrous associations a few years ago and I waved goodbye to several friends (no choice). EVERY structure that existed in my life before this all swept by the wayside.

    When pluto was opposing my sun a few years ago I also lost 3 important, close female family members … two within a few months of each other and the third (my dog) not much later. Pluto is now transiting my 8th house and will hit my south node in a few years time and so oppose my north node.

    Your analogy of needing to have checkups for years is right.
    And what are the percentages of those who survive aggressive cancers?

  15. Mary says:

    Pluto can be terrifically rough in transit…I have had some experience of it….enough to feel great sympathy.
    But there are ways to improve the energy…transform it into something more positive.
    the simplest way to do it would be by wearing a good quality black stone ( onyx for example) set in a ring and worn on the right forefinger. That puts you in control of the energy. This kind of remedy will start to work within about 40 days…but usually starts to work much sooner….I have done this and found it really works. There are probably other ways too..

  16. WILL says:

    Dear Sunshine,
    Do you have 20 Leo as your ascendant and 14 Taurus as your MC?

  17. rob says:

    uberqueenofwands:
    The weird thing was, when it was all over, deaths, misery, loss etc and I walked out of the underworld, what replaced it was superficially “better” but not fulfilling. It was like I had been swimming for my life in tar and was finally out of it, panting on a dry shore.
    PLuto gave me a dimension I am profoundly indebted for even though it HURT.

    I really do like the way you’ve put this UQ and when Pluto has the reigns it does feel as if your guts have changed places with your heart, but, afterwards, is it ever really over? – and I resonate with the harmonious/depth apparent dicotomy, only, I seem to want this as a fusion experience, which can make me hard company to be with – I tend to like strong people too who show signs of Pluto presence – in re-capitulating on my life I have come to realise that it seems to have been entertained in the court of Pluto since I can remember, and even my earliest memory is very Plutonic – is this possible – I have wondered about the Algol effect yes, and Pluto is square my DC – if it wasn’t for my sense of humour I would probably be totally unbearable – hell, I’ve scared my superiors and this has gotten me into big trouble in day jobs – when I ran a company, very successfully, it was run on a profit sharing basis, very co-operative based and, at the time, revolutionary in structure and portfolio, and this worked well as a funnel for the Pluto dynamic, but, it wasn’t me and I left to go into the wilds – I’ve been pummelled and turned inside out over and over, yet, I survive and the experience is a constant undercurrent that is very tectonic, magma like and volcanic when it erupts (Pluto is also on Regulus), but, has become a familiar within, not a ruler – I still have’nt found an ideal single shape to fit this into and I think thats a part of it – I feel the value of the Persephone myth, don’t actually mind that, so I wonder if she did also – and, even so, I think she must have gotten to like it being the uber-queen of the underworld (I wonder if I don’t detect a sense of this in you too) – just how much of the Mother/Daughter relationship in that story was also the discovery by the daughter of her own powerful rebellious and revolutionary nature and claiming its power – my own mother is a Scorpio cusp Libran, and she tries so hard to give her love, but, is totally unconscious of her own dark side, which ironically perhaps, is the driving force behind that love – I keep her very much at arms length these days, even though I know she will be gone soon enough (mid 80′s now) – teachers and mentors have all been very Plutonic too, actually something I like, although I soon found out they don’t like upstarts or mirrors ;) and what, I wonder, are the male equivalent archetypes for the Demeter/Persephone myth…care to lob in a few suggestions?

    • Rachel says:

      Theseus? finding his father, going into the minotaur’s labyrinth, forgetting to tell dad he’s not dead, dad throws self of cliff…oh and abandoning Ariadne on Naxos. nice guy. Odysseus? trickster, gets home to dad and Penelope (the weaver) via the scenic route inc underworld if i remember right?

      • rob says:

        Theseus and Odysseus eh? The dad thing has a certain ring (cf reply to UQW) – I spent some time following the trails of the myths in Greece, even learned the language so I could get off the beaten track and stay longer, and Naxos was one of my fave islands and a personal hinge point – cracked a tooth clean open on a grape pip, which was appropriate as Naxos was one of Dionysus’ hang-outs – got it fixed by a professional tooth puller of a dentist who boasted never using anaesthetic – refused to have it pulled and had a patch-up root filling instead – nerve pain becomes sweet beyond a certain threshold – point being the pain/grief as motivation for healing motif in Demeter’s myth didn’t stop her from driving a hard bargain and, as much Theseus and Odysseus have great stories involving their family, they come across as wide-boys, a couple of ‘mothers’ really, more than enraged and agrieved mothers – still, I’m going to read up on them anew, so much appreciation to you for the suggestions :)

        • rob says:

          on second thoughts, for all his heroics Theseus does bring a certain male ineptitude into the picture…..could be very appropriate!

          • Rachel says:

            yes, on second thoughts the father connection isn’t so strong with odysseus, but I like the self sabotage in his story – he’s in sight of home when he takes a nap, allowing his crew to open the bag of wind that blows them away to take the long, ego dissolving self discovering way home. On the other hand, I find Theseus quite complex – partly fathered by Poseidon/Neptune, has to prove his strength in order to go in search of his mortal father, Aegeus, who is shacked up with Medea post Jason; inadvertently causes his father’s suicide through grief; later goes on a mission to ‘marry’(rape?) Persephone and ends up doing a spell down under….maybe we girls have to go in search of our lost daughters and, in an inversion of that, guys have to find their fathers…just rapping really. Love the grape pip story – life in the old god yet!

    • uberqueenofwands says:

      Hi Rob,

      Definitely Orpheus – and the story gives more illumination on Persephone – her heart needed softening while she was in Hades… to allow Eurydice to return.

      And of course Arjuna in the Gita although I couldn’t say exactly where wold be the most salient part – perhaps because its all salient.

      …After asking Krishna for help, Arjuna is instructed that only the body may be killed, as he was worried if it would become a sin to kill people (including his gurus and relatives), while the eternal self is immortal. Krishna appeals to Arjuna that, as a warrior, he has a duty to uphold the path of dharma through warfare.
      Arjuna asks why he should engage in fighting if knowledge is more important than action. Krishna stresses to Arjuna that performing his duties for the greater good, but without attachment to results, is the appropriate course of action.

      Arjuna asks Krishna if it is better to forgo action or to act (“renunciation or discipline of action”[45]). Krishna answers that both ways may be beneficent, but that acting in Karma Yoga is superior.

      I find this even more compelling because J Oppenheimer (atom bomb) studied the Gita and said –

      “Access to the Vedas is the greatest privilege this century may claim over all previous centuries.”

      and quoted it with regard to his invention after the Trinity Test, “I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.”
      All this of course coinciding with the discovery of Pluto.

      Darth Vader is a great ale Plutonic character Rob….

      I have PLuto conj Mars conj Sun conj Venus. I have PLuto and Mars square Algol…
      Off with his head!!!

  18. Rachel says:

    “I endured Pluto square sixfold stellium with Saturn opposite for what seemed like several lifetimes. It was a sort of paralysis of time. I locked myself away, eked out a meagre living and studied alchemy. I also had one of the most profound sexual relationships of my life (PLuto is verrrry sexy) and had a lot of very disturbing dreams”
    Yes!Yes and Yes!
    Oh duh! This is identical to my last 20 years – everything in the 12 and 1st, pluto’s been squaring it and this current stellium has been tramping through with Saturn opposing. A couple of years ago i held my father’s hand as he passed, carried off at the exact, to the minute, full moon. It felt as though my only purpose in being born was to be there for him at that moment and through his long illness. I think I’m a better and saner person despite everything and on the plus side my asthma vanished after 35 years either because of all the crying or the treatment for anxiety!

    • uberqueenofwands says:

      Hi Rachel,
      Further to the Dark One, i was deeply into symbolism of Pluto during the transit years and found the nuclear bomb the most perfect illustration.
      First it is a power of immense destruction. So it destroys all one’s safeties… it injures and burns and if you are at the epicentre it eradicates without a trace. Where the blast passes through it leaves shadows of what was in its way.
      I think it was the History Channel recently aired a programme about Hiroshima. The stories were harrowing but the grace of the survivors was incredible. Such beautiful souls and no bitterness.
      Gamma rays (the synchron fallout of the nuclear bomb) will either kill cells or cause them to mutate depending on the dose. I think a sustained Pluto attack creates a mutation – a change. The intense hit may be instant destruction (not necessarily death but destruction of securities.)
      Of course gamma rays are used in radiation therapy to kill tumours too.

      My sister also died when PLuto was exactly square her natal moon and also opposite her Sun, conj her asc.
      Having seen the time frame of the transit it made for better preparation of her death.

      Am now thinking if PLuto is no stranger to one natally, perhaps the big transits are “easier” because one feels inherently at home in some way, it just has to be remembered.

      • Rachel says:

        ‘Endarkening’ I love it! light is overrated, ‘light workers’ have done me so much psychological damage, isn’t Lucifer the light bearer?
        Not exactly nuclear, but a small incendiary device went off in my head yesterday when I spotted that my 20 year old daughter was born exactly when Pluto sguared Saturn, the first planet in my 12th house party, and the fun times began. Lead, rather than Plutonium was my medium. Yes, the destruction of securities, the death of unhelpful ego expectations – I have experienced the losses I dreaded, of my father, of my marriage and a subsequent relationship, both of which had to go but I didn’t think I could survive. These things hold no fear any more, but there is one more loss I dread – that of one of my children, which I’d prefer not to go through funnily enough, so may have to dig bunker for the Pl sq moon transit!!
        Thanks for your insight

  19. uberqueenofwands says:

    Another UQW wondering…

    Using the analogy of light – which is the manifest active ingredient of an atom bomb and PLuto as the bomb… then taking Uranus as a flash of illumination and the link of PLutonium and Uranium…

    What sudden enlightenments/endarkenments will we see over the coming months when there are cardinal exacts?

    With ref to this thread, PLuto enlightens by endarkening.

    • rob says:

      Thanks for these nuggets of black gold UQ – I am very enamoured of Orpheus, but, some tales have him whimping out on going to join Eurydice permanently in favour of risking his falability at seeing the ardous task through – he was a doubter essentially, and rightly so – its his very humanity that makes him a good candidate for the role in Plutonia; poor guy, he was so much in love and so overjoyed at getting his loved one back, he just couldn’t wait – the whole Orphic story is laced with lessons in the madness and blinding effects of love – still, for all his bardic and shamanic qualities, he (and Euryd) still doesn’t quite feel right as a masculine counter to the Demeter Persephone myth – maybe it needs to be a father/son thang…..

      Krishna and Arjuna are rich with such a vast mythos behind them…so worth looking further into – what I am trying to get at here is nuance that serves to widen and deepen the archetypal symbolism – actually, what I really want is to completely replace all the Roman gods and goddesses (at least get a break from their overly psychological constructs and deeply pathological insidiousness) and bring the rest of the world in, but, thats just a personal revolution…..

      The A bomb is a great metaphor for the Pluto alchemy, especially with its radial sweep of scaled effects – I particularly like what you say about the dark/light relationship as well – yes, ‘Pluto enlightens by endarkening’ and, being a tad Plutonic, I welcome the balanced voice of experience that knows the value of the ‘en-darkened’ soul – a good word, distinct from a darkened soul – and too many ‘white light fascists’ in the world make for a very deeply denied shadow IMHO – fascinating that shadows are left as the imprint of the inner fire……Plato would have been mortified

      • Uberqueenofwands says:

        Amen to all of that, Rob, especially the Graeco Roman myths. Maybe there is some thing in Norse mythology? Egyptian… Even African! I’ll work on it. Shakespeare full of father son angst too. Then there’s Freud…
        The White light fascist … What a great term. Makes me think that even the nazis started out as a democratic socialist party!

        • rob says:

          yeh – look out for ‘Bliss-Bunnies’ as well – often found hanging onto the frock-coat tails of WLFs….bloody Liberals (no apologies Mr Clegg)

          • rob says:

            something else thats sparked my anarchic mind recently is re-writing the myths so they have different endings completely (not a new idea I know cf wholesale Christianity) – but, for example, can you imagine the re-union party if Orpheus hadn’t looked back, and the traditions we might now have boiling away in our psychic cauldrons as a result…..

          • uberqueenofwands says:

            Or.. Orpheus doesn’t look back gets the girl but is still curious about te underworld – she’s been there and a scrap ensues because he wants an adventure…
            or – once he’s got her back, he realises it was the romance of tyring to save her which was the catch…. all that moping, playing of music and generally being a lost Neptunian soul.. he loved it, discovered his inner masochist and preferred the pining experience to seing her ensconced at home being mortal… having PMT and getting acne etc etc

            or…he looked back, lost her and just threw his hands up and said, win some lose some….

            and what if….

            no! No ! Shut up UQW….

            What about Anubis , Guardian of the Scales which weighed the hearts of the deceased, Lord of the UNderworld – he had a more balanced relatinship with his wife – but he was usurped by Osiris… some dark power trip going on there. I think the Egyptian Gods had a better relationship with death and were the precursors to the Greek myths mostly.
            Maybe your Plutonic roots lie there Rob… come to think of it, why don’t more men of power exploit the archetype of High Priest/Herophant instead of womanising toddler kings?
            Less PLatonic more PLutonic?

          • uberqueenofwands says:

            OR.. you could just dress up as DArth Vader… wasn’t that father and son story also in a Wagnerian Opera? Lohengrin?? BAck to the Teutonic and Norse myths?
            We’d have to find an actual event which founded the myth. Wouldn’t mos PLuto myths be about the planet Venus appearing/being devoured/reappearing etc when it first came in to the system?

  20. uberqueenofwands says:

    Rachel: light is overrated, ‘light workers’ have done me so much psychological damage,

    Ha!! i was confronted by a “light worker” a year ago who had just gone through a “process” to allow her to “hold more light” … she then looked at my daughter (just off the plane after a 12 hr flight escaping London winter and unemployment, broken relationship etc) and said “You could really get into the dark side.. you’re full of dark energy…”

    Oddly, this little sunray is just about to endure a Pluto transit to her desc and as a double Cancer a whole lotta cardinal cross…

    I’ll check back in a couple of years to see the shadow where the blast passed through!

    • rob says:

      Oh yeh UQW – I’ve met plenty of these ‘living dead’ types, and, incidently, they don’t have reflections either (its a metaphor)…..

      …….there is a strong element of the psychic vampire at work in instances such as this where power is being drawn from the dark, by the light, that seeks to deny the dark – it reminds me of the effects that elevation of the reality of the mind over that of matter has – when the duality is emphasised the comlimentarity is diminished and the dynamic unity (and all meaning, it’s dialectic) is also lost, and denied – illusion, like imagination, has been given the spin of unreality through such shenanigans – harkens back to the twin pillars of the ‘High Priestess’ who bridges and unifies Boaz & Joachim (B and J on the pillars); neither draws power from the other, they interact, and in the Rider Waite version of the card ‘nature’ is her backdrop (go look below)

      ….however, WLF’s agendas are fully revealed in all their Satanic glory by, through denial, emphasising the dark energy as if it were the devil incarnate, when infact, so long as this is insisted upon, it is pointing up the devil in the light at the same time….there-in lies the denial…..its as if to say that Saturn is bad because he limits, when infact, without limitation the creative energy of light would remain imperceptible – can you see light [the masculine principle?] as it travels through endless space? – no, it needs a ‘receiver’ [the feminine principle?] to ‘register’ it [entered, by naming it, into the matrix of reality - ie matriculated, issued from the womb, born] – its at the beginning of Genesis, ‘in the beginning was the Word’, and this was subverted by the Greeks, capitalised upon by the Latin scholars, to emphasise the primacy of the Godhead, when infact in Hebrew, ‘beginning’ has its roots in the notion of entering via the head and becoming manifest as it is received by the body – the chakra reference is obvious and, it seems is at the root of the notion that the Mind is the ultimate reality, accessible via the reverse process, issuing from the head beyond the body – otherwise, without the creative process, the reality of mind (and light is synonymous here) reality would never manifest and we’d all be fairies drifting endlessly through LaLa land – cue ‘Bliss Bunnies’….end of rant!…almost….

      ….is it any wonder pagans were put to the fire; still happening so it seems…..in Hermetic wisdom (and Mercury, like Saturn, is also often cast as the devil, by the same token) is the application of the teaching that we can only perceive ‘that’ which is already inside of us….as above, so below, and, as within so without…..

      ……I doubt if you will find a shadow UQW…. ;)

      • rob says:

        and look at all those Pomegranites amidst the Yoni bearing Date Palms (Jed Pillars) – the Goddess at the head, the High Priestess

  21. uberqueenofwands says:

    rob: denial…..its as if to say that Saturn is bad because he limits, when infact, without limitation the creative energy of light would remain imperceptible

    The Hexagon – as in hexagonal storm on saturn and basic shape of carbon atom, basis of life as we know it… perhaps not for long though!

    I think I might have found you a “new” – well alternative male myth which is suitably old enough to be to PLutonic and has a female element to it.

    In some aboriginal cultures (Australian) there is a different way of seeing the male role in procreating.
    The spirit child is heard or experienced as a wind while the man is out hunting. It is a call to be born. The mother may also go to a sacred spot and go through ritual to unite with the spirit child. The potency of this site is considered the conceiver of the child. The biological parents are just the gateways. Individuals “concieved” in this way are identified with that spirit power of place etc and not expected or considered to be the property of their parents or have their personalities.
    So a son born of this style of conception would not have the burden of his father’s expectations/inheritance etc He would have the spirit of the place/time/other ancestors etc IN modern parlance this coul theoretically absolve the father/som myths/dilemma.

    Alternatively – consider Enki. Enki was the Lord of Life, God of replenisjment, Master shaper of the world, magic, water… One of his omages os of a double headed snake – twin currents (now the caduceus… Birkeland currents!) He set up his domain in the Abzu – depths of the earth… with his EQUAL – Ninhursag. He is prepatriarchal. I think he represents deep earth kundalini. He asisted human kind to survive the deluge sent to destroy them and bargained for humans. He is often depicted with two streams or currents at his shoulders – maybe male and female forces.
    As lord of the Abzu – Deep fresh “groundwater” located within the earth, he is a nurturing god. He dispenses the Mes – a list of qualities of social institution – distributed amongst men – these ranged from the Cult chamber, Truth and Music to Falsehood, eunuchs and metal working… there were about 100 of them.

    I’m pretty certain he must be the predecessor of Hades, Lord of the Underworld in one aspect, or rather Hades/Pluto is one aspect of Enki.

    So looking at the PLuto Persephone myth, patriarchalism had crept in by then. But in older myth they were equals and she must have been a potent force of the deep roots in earth… unlike the silly cow who pranced about in the meadow tra la la …

    So ther is a layer of PLuto which predate the plutonic? A different kind of male energy.
    I’ve noticed that the older Egyptian gods have a much more balanced distribution of qualities to them.

    The High Priestess is shushumna sitting between ida and pingala, the two pillars. Or she is the central Z pinch of energy created where the two Birkeland currents meet. She is kundalini rising, shakti… She emanates from the deep under earth sleeping place of Enki. From the Apzu.
    Enki did of course have a mother… Nammu, also ruling those deep regenerating currents/waters
    And so the male/female issue can be resolved, when we see the fractal representation of both in eachother.
    So in essence… why stick with one myth? PLuto Moon… keep digging!

    • uberqueenofwands says:

      Sorry – I forgot to say the diagram is John Keely’s subdivision of matter. Wheels within wheels… anyone who studies TCM will have seen the same patterns.

    • rob says:

      this reminds me of this….

      • Uberqueenofwands says:

        Which is? A netsuke?. What is it?Want one!,

        • Uberqueenofwands says:

          It reminds me of the notion of three permanent atoms which are in every incarnation of the soul! Allegedly…

        • rob says:

          this is a neolithic petrosphere from Scotland – many have been discovered, and they do occur in many other places around the world, Costa Rica and Eastern Europe amongst them, but, sadly most of the archeological sites that had illustrations for the scottish ones no longer seem to have access – I am sure the visuals are out there somewhere

          this one has been dated to 3.200 to 2.500 BC – this puts it approx 0.25 the precesional cycle – they vary greatly, all are spherical, many with nodules, some, like the above, have multiple patterned faces – the Costa Rican ones are geometrically perfect spheres

          there are no ‘known’ reasons for their existance – one of my mentors (Cheyenne) however had indigenous knowledge relating to them that ties them into the electro-magnetic pathways of the earth (as well as Atlantis, but, lets be careful with that word) – speculatively they have been linked by the orthodoxy with divination and/or gaming, and divination makes some sense to me, but, not for divining the future, more as an esoteric path of knowledge, wisdom and teaching

          the British Museum have 3 – they also produced a catalogue (my own copy has disappeared…) some years ago with excellent photos of these and others, plus other carved objects, including magnifent stone mace heads, which also show spiral and interference patterns – the latter are esoterically connected with the ‘office’ of one who holds power, for which read ‘esoteric knowledge’

          the link to the electric universe model is to be noted (I feel) and wonder if the ‘Thunderbolts’ have made note (anywhere)

          I too am very strongly attracted to them, have thought about carving some myself, but, been ‘advised’ against doing so….I mention the latter not for sinister reasons but because the intent behind doing so was essentially ‘ungrounded’, being given to understand that I am not ready, or the time is not right – for this speculative reason alone I am waiting, and not dismissing the possibility, and indeed, with current crop circles reflecting the patterning and designs so strongly feel that it is right to do so – on this last note, I do now also feel that a collective investigation, a collaborative witnessing and understanding of all these phenomena is unfolding now and that the time is right for us to work together to bring the right conditions about, largely as a matter of consciousness, for their significance to become available to us all – alone this is not possible, another reason I might have been ‘advised’ as such, however, together we can join the dots (spheres) – UQW, your input here is invaluable in this respect…..thought you might like this!

          • uberqueenofwands says:

            How amazing! What a beautiful item!
            Rgds the CC phenomena – its all gone nasty down in WIlts – many farmers who were sympathetic before have put signs up now banning access, much of the wheat has been replaced with rape (not such clear imagery but impossible to hoax), car parks now have barriers on them etc etc making it all really hard for the dedicated croppie to gain access. However, they’re still coming!
            My links to their symbolism too huge to put here – but be suffice to say I’m writing a. A novel based on what I found and b. putting the research together to publish on the web but will bring you and M a copy of that when we meet.
            Its not a fairy tale. There are pictograms of nuke type explosions, electric events etc all consistent with gods of antiquity.
            Meanwhile, there aren’t enough hours in the day… literally!

  22. rob says:

    uberqueenofwands: Meanwhile, there aren’t enough hours in the day… literally!

    tell me about it….I sleep in small pockets of time, disregard the clock whenever possible, and feel its more about quality than quantity…but, lets consider that we are all laying the foundations…..every comment, link, feedback, article, work of art, and meeting counts

  23. Rachel says:

    These are gorgeous images, and they remind me of tri-spiral carvings in Newgrange, an Irish neolithic structure which is illuminated at midwinter solstice. I’m too idle to put an image up at the moment, but they’re strikingly similar. there was a tv programme 10 years ago which put forward the idea that acoustics played an important part in these structures i.e if a bunch of people chant in a smoky dusty atmosphere, and it is lit at the right angle,the sound waves produce visible patterns in the smoke,very like the carvings. i haven’t tested it out but it’s a great theory. check out http://www.knowth.com/salmon-of-wisdom.htm
    here’s a fun after dinner game though – shine a light on a wine glass, with some liquid of your choice in it, so that the surface of the liquid reflects onto the ceiling. then do that thing where you run your finger round the rim to make the glass sing. You should get some interesting patterns on the ceiling, like the sand patterns you get with chladni plates. It’s like watching the universe being sung into existence.
    sorry to butt in again, but this is so up my street!

    • uberqueenofwands says:

      Its called cymatics! I never thought of the light in the wine glass but I’m going to give it a go!
      Nat Geo did a documentary on Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland which is full of craved symbols which correspond to cymatic patterns (i.e those formed by passing sound waves through solids and liquids). What was really amazing – and pretty enlightened of the producers was to involve three psychics. Rosslyn Chapel presents so many mysteries. One of the psychics was sure that the whole place could be “played” i.e that the sounds locked in all the patterns, if played opened a portal to another dimension!
      Here is a small part of it and how they created the music! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy2Dg-ncWoY
      You’ll get the picture!
      “Like watching the universe being sung into existence -” lovely analogy! In the beginning was the word… (sound).

      • Rachel says:

        …precisely!
        terrific link with the Rosslyn Chapel cymatic (thanks for the new word!)patterns,the wineglass trick produces very similar ones. Another piece of the puzzle. I’m just a bit giddy with the synchronicity of it all because this was something I worked on at art college, and black virgins/cult of Cybele (regulus thread)was my dissertation subject at university…what does it all mean?! Maybe this site is a portal!

        • uberqueenofwands says:

          Where are you based Rachel?
          Did you ever come across a book called The World is Sound – Nada Brahma in your studies? Its all about sound waves as the basis for form. Excellent work and makes me think of the power of chanting mantram.
          I can see you me and Rob orchestrated in a small magickal cavern somehwere… being arrested for disturbing the peace!!!

          • Rachel says:

            southwest uk. No I don’t know that one – to tell you the truth I played with a knackered old chladni plate with almost no sand and a frayed bow at the Bristol Exploratory before they tarted it up. I saw the pattern, realised that That’s How It All Works, Obvious Really, and, content with this epiphany, went to find the children.
            I did find the work of Dr Masaru Emoto – how words and thoughts and other energies change the crystalline structure of water and therefore cell structure – fitted the pattern – of course mantra, blessing and cursing and kind or harsh words alter the brain and body, of course Thoth talked himself into existence!
            The cave’s a date as long as it’s Pluto’s not Plato’s! Always a risk with my Neptune.

  24. rob says:

    Rachel & UQW – funny that, but, playing with sound in ancient sites is something I am in the habit of doing and this has just triggered memories of a couple of times – not been to Knowth/Newgrange (yet) but theres a similar beehive shaped souteraine (underground chamber) at Carn Euny – that has similar sounding properties – works for voice – there are various cromlech and barrows in the UK where drum works to open the walls and floor, and toning produces red sprites and blue flashes in some, but, Carn Euny is specially good for sustained resonant intoning and overtones arise naturally – feel it needs a group, always wanted to try it with a circle of seven – one day….on a full moon opposite Pluto

    Rosslyn I have good memories of – bloody annoying for others but I can’t help singing there – in the lowest chamber the acoustics are very special – I intoned there for half an hour once, lost all track of time and was rescued by my companion – the walls and floor resonated so strongly that I really felt either they or I were atomising – I’m a natural baritone so it felt incredibly cleansing to the lower chakras, even felt as if there were lower ones below the feet – the sound there envelops and definitely opens channels, absolutely no doubt – after a while the vocal range extends as if the whole body is being unblocked – my companion knew the area well and told me that there was a network of tunnels in the river valley there (which we did visit) but she also said the chapel sits on a resonator chamber which connects to these, so, perhaps the feeling below my feet was the vibration reaching into that space – the whole building felt like being inside a musical instrument – it felt like rainbows in the night – I believe the rock Rosslyn sits on has a volcanic flume in it, where-as the surrounding bedrock is quartz/sandstone – the electricity stored in that place makes my hair stand on end (even tho most of it has drifted south)…..but, I feel sure that extrememly high pitched toning would produce light in the lower chamber, perhaps the solfeggios…we should try it sometime….on a full moon conjunct Pluto

    • uberqueenofwands says:

      I’m in!

    • uberqueenofwands says:

      To Rob and RAchel – go to astro.com and click on special charts and then Sound Charts – you can select any chart and it is “put to music” and visual patterns as per transit of seven planets. You can also select a more complex version and speed it up! its pretty good – select Mundane for the world tune.
      Rob – you will particularly “like” the discord around the time Elenin is close – end of Sept through October!
      At the present the mundane is very discordant – there’s a cardinal cross in place until the eclipse when it sounds better! A resolution?
      The tones are light but imagine if it were put through a synthesised church organ with full pipes into the ground… then we’d hear the gates of Hades open!!
      Enjoy!

      • Rachel says:

        that special sound chart is so cool – Why did I never find it before? The discord in my personal chart beginning sept when Pluto comes back for another swipe bears out my theory that it’s tin hat time then!

        • uberqueenofwands says:

          I only found it a few days ago! On another blog. Its really simple to hear the sounds rather than sit for ages with the numbers trying to fathom out when to stay under the duvet!
          I think something is going to take a swipe at us all in October. Did you check out the mundane chart?

          • rob says:

            fascinating and of great interest to the cat, Wizard – the coming eclipse/NM is setting up something imho which will break down/up/out/in (thats called ‘hedging’) at the equinox moon, infact the cardinal NMs seem to all be disonant – praps we should pay attention to the NM patterns over the next 4 months – that big disonance comes on and around the Scorp new moon, coincidentally at the end of the Mayan long count, on the 26/7/8 Oct -very Sun Ra orchestrated by Stockhausen and sung by the thousand voice choir with a Libretto by Nietzsche on beatbox

            with all the outer planets (inc Jupiter and Saturn) at early degrees each NM plays off these – the Leo NM is at the head of a yod to Chiron/Neptune sextile Pluto and is square Jupiter with Mercury opp Neptune (leave that one to you guys) – but, the Libra NM is square to Pluto and opp Uranus, Mars quinc Pluto, Moon quinc Jupiter – sounds like James Brown meets Beethoven and playing the Star Mangled Banner (Jimi Hendrix interp)to a setting by Orpheus with Alaister Crowley conducting – check ‘em out, and lets not fergit special guest, Elenin….

          • rob says:

            tho Saturn is in no way at an early degree – er….

          • Uberqueenofwands says:

            I’ll settle for The Mahavishnu Orchestra’s Apocalypse….

  25. John says:

    lol, I had no idea about the sound horoscope. Very cool! I’m currently going through this transit. In fact, pluto just went retrograde only some 12 minutes from being exactly opposite. It will be direct and come exactly opposite my moon in January.

    I have been going through a lot of behavior changes lately. Whether of my own decision or not is another matter, but with Saturn geared to transit over my natal pluto in the 12th, I think there’s plenty more on the horizon. I may just wind up hiding in a cave somewhere. lol :-P

    Here’s the chart for when Pluto is EXACTLY opposite my moon.

    • John says:

      [img]http://www.astro.com/tmpd/cm2zfilelmLrMB-u1253055001/astro_61gw_01_34_john_magana_jan_12.80263.40352.gif?41104[/img]

    • John says:

      okay… I give up. lol.

      • Jamie says:

        Hi John, I copied the url to get to the pic, then copied it to my desktop. You can upload images from your computer in these comments:

        • John says:

          Yes, I had tried that initially but for some reason it never showed up. Browser related? (google chrome via Mac)
          In any case, appreciate the techno-tag in! ^.^

          Oh! In addition, nothing has come up with my mother at all aside us talking slightly more often. Though, my sister just got a new job in a prison. (My mom works in a prison as well). I’m a baker. Go figure. ;-)

  26. Sharon says:

    Would this apply to the Pluto Square Moon transit, too?

    Thanks.

    • Miss M says:

      I hope not, if you are facing it. Find somewhere safe to hide out.
      I barely survived Pluto square my Sun before it kicked straight into Pluto opp Moon…I don’t know where the next punch is coming from these days.
      I did a chart for being severely beaten by a very charming gentleman and that was Pluto square Moon but that could have nothing to do with anything.
      Good luck.

  27. M. del Rin says:

    I will live this on my solar return 2013… will read carefully! Thankyou folks!

    Rocío.

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