Hellenistic Astrology
Hellenistic astrology is apparently experiencing a revival. Writing for The Mountain Astrologer, Eric Frances made the observation when reporting on NCGR: An Offline Gathering of Astrologers that “It’s always struck me as interesting that most of the astrologers under age 30 are drawn to Hellenistic techniques and the deeper historical traditions rather than the new planets — but that seems to be the trend.”
As a regular reader of the big astrology forums and blogs, I just don’t see this. The Astrodienst Forum is by far the largest and most international of the astrology forums, and Hellenistic astrology simply does not rate there.
It is not mentioned at all. Listed under “other branches of astrology”, there is Asteroids, Fixed stars, discussion about Vedic or Chinese astrology, or specialised techniques, such as the Hamburg School or Huber School.No Hellenistic astrology.
The next biggest forum is the Astrology Weekly forum, again no Hellenistic astrology. ACT Astrology has an Hellenistic Astrology section which is certainly not attracting masses of under 30’s. The Hellenistic Astrology Forum simply never got going.
As for the blogs The Horoscopic Astrology Blog has a few articles about Hellenistic astrology but there are no examples of how it actually applies in the real world, no chart interpretations based on the Hellenistic methods, and The Hellenistic Astrology Blog just aint there. So as far as I can see, the hype about Hellenistic astrology seems to center around academia, selling translations, selling software and selling courses. What I do not see anywhere is the practical application of Hellenistic astrology. A lot of theory but where is the application? What good is it to clients?
This traditional form of astrology claims to be above Sun Sign astrology yet the strict rules and regulations are derived from the Sun Signs. Therefore the Hellenistic system is just as flawed as Sun Signs astrology. The rules are like that of a patriarchal religion, they are so complex that they can only be fully understood by the few elite who dedicate themselves to the study of the texts like the priesthood in the church.
I have argued the case in astrology forums by using examples of chart interpretations. The Hellenistic method is complex and confusing, with get out clauses for when it falls apart. All I ever got was quotes from old texts and rules, but no practical, no useful astrological interpretations.
Come on Saturn opposite Uranus! As I said a while ago in The Evolution of Astrology.“There is a growing mass consciousness awareness of this issue. Astrology has critical role to play in the shift in consciousness beginning to occur. We are evolving away from the zodiac sign astrology and the strict rules and regulations that are based on the 30 degree divisions.” If the astrologers who developed the Hellenistic system jumped in a time machine and came here now, do you really think they would stick with their system and ignore all the advanced we have made in the last two thousand years?
I’m half way though listening to Eric’s lecture on new planetary discoveries at the NCGR, he more or less said the same thing as you with regards to the past/future.
He said something like “If I needed an operation done I think it would be important my surgeon had a good grounding in the history of medicine, but I wouldn’t want him to use medieval techniques for the surgery!”
I don’t know why he thinks it’s a trend tho. Maybe its just “trendy” right now because of the discovery of these ancient texts.
We are raised in a Saturnian society, so I suppose its natural when new things crash into our consciousness we grapple back for something steady to cling onto. But like the Saturn return, if we don’t learn our lessons from that we get a far more intense mid life crisis experience when we get are half Uranus return age 38/42.
The Hellenistic revival to me is a symptom of The Uranus/Saturn opposition.
That is, a desperation for an anchor lest we get lost in space.
I think the age group most important in this consolidation of Saturn V Uranus are those born in the last Saturn/Uranus opposition in the 60’s. For Astrology too because some of us had Chiron opposing Uranus then.
Also to add punch to that, we had Uranus conjunct Pluto. Kelly Lee Phipps once said to me that, that generation are the Spearbearers of this revolution in Astrology.
I am a 1966 baby, but I do think it is important to get a solid grounding for our new galactic pioneering. Discovering the fixed stars for me has given that to me, a cosmic anchor for these new “wanderers”.
The myths and archetypes that weave around the constellations, are trans cultural, and their equivalents span history. For example the constellation, the Argo (the Ship) can very easily translate to a spaceship for modern day.
I like to think of it as the Tardis too tho;)
I am a supporter of Hellenistic astrology but while I am members of those forums I consider myself a novice so won’t post in that capacity but very rarely. I disagree that there are NO discussions about Hellenistic because I’ve brought it up at those sites myself. lol. But the teachers aren’t there.
I know you’re a Hellenista Amy but I also know you have a very open mind and explore other areas of astrology. I didn’t mean that Hellenistic astrology doesn’t come up in discussion on those forums, but that there are no boards specific for it, like there are with Vedic, asteroids, etc.
Good for you! Fight the power.
I use an Hellenistic approach. I like the fundamental nature of it. It is the base point for me, where I start. In my years of practice I have developed a fairly comprehensive tool kit garnered from myriad schools of thought. For me, Hellenistic Astrology grounds it all and brings it all together in a very real way.
thanks for the comments Drew and Tania. I just recieved a good comment on my facebook profile on this subject from Joseph Crane who has written an article on his website astrologyinstitute.com/Articles/article_Practical_Beginning.html “A Practical Beginning to Hellenistic Astrology.” In this article he has used Rudy Giuliani as an example of this astrological technique. As a comparitive exercise i’m going to use this anaysis to see how a modern appraoch can explain the life of Rudy without relying on sect, dispositors, domiciles etc. i’ll try and get a blog out on in a day or two.
Like you said it is gathering momentum. Sort of being in its 2nd station, gathering strength preparing to move forward. It is probable that relative sections will start popping in astroforums any time now.
Modern astrology still has some ancient concepts in it, (for example saturn in 7th = delay to/no marriage). It is a real problem that the delineations of nativities often provide contradictory interpretations between modern style and Hellinistic.
However, I am truly glad for the efforts to revive and make publicly known, our heritage and knowledge on the basis of astrology.
I “think” Hellenistic techniques sometimes but its not really a system where you can take bits and pieces of and use in other systems. Its good to have a background of different “schools” when discerning how chart functions may or may not work. If one goes into delineation with a limited focus then some possibilities will never see the light of day.
I like Marina’s surgeon analogy and not sure about Eric Francis’behavioural observations.
Kingsley
<<<claiming to be a 60's baby…lol. that image of the suspended police box is AMAAAZING!! Where is that from? Sending Blessings, RevJ
@Wroskopos, i’m not so sure it is gathering momentum, that was an observation from Eric after attending the NGCR conference, which has a high profile presence of Hellenistic astrologers pushing their product, not really representative of the global astrological community. i agree that there are useful techniques to use from this period of astrology. i often use the Arabic Parts for example.
there are lots of possibilities and new ones appearing all the time. i use a mix of old and new myself. fixed star observations predate the Hellenistic period, and the Vertex is a new tool which i lkove to use.
the TARDIS is how The Doctor travels through time and space.
As an historian (and astrologer) I find the rise of non-academic interest in the machinations of ‘Hellenistic’ astrology on a par with the rise of fundamentalism in Mohammadeanist and Christianist fringe groups. It seems that in the electronic world some “Golden Age” is very attractive to those whose educations were deficient in critical thinking, acquisition of language skills and cultural studies (ie, learning Latin and Greek from the age of seven) and scientific knowledge and rigour of methodology, but who are thus very ill-prepared to face a bewildering world of multiple-choices and instant access to an excess of information. They run like mice to the cuddly and warm emo embrace of the distant past, to when ‘things were so new and all’ (Candide). They discover their roots. But are somehow blind to the one thing all roots have: mud.
You’re utterly correct that these kids have been douched by the self-publishing hawkers of translations. And they are very proud to have turned up a bit of mud and talk loudly and fervently about ‘our heritage’, ‘the great tradition’ and other fundamentalist expressions of faithful enthusiasm.
An astrologer friend of mine in Montreal termed them the ‘rear-view’ school. I thought this had something to do with little mirrors in horseless carriages, but have, after considerable reflection, come to see that the reference is in fact to mammalian anatomy.
Flint knives and arrow-heads are indeed wonderful inventions by ancient humans. Brain surgery would require something a bit more modern. Or to put it another way, The history of nonsense is indeed serious business, but nonsense remains nonsense.
Excellent feedback Lorenzo! it’s great for me to read this from someone more “in the loop” from America. i have only made these observations as an outsider from what i see on the internet.
a freind on Facebook posted this quote which i think sums up the whole story:
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex… It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” ~Albert Einstein
I don’t agree with most of the sentiment of this blog. What most here don’t seem to realize is that back in the 1970’s (when I first got into the field), the modern material had the majority view (as it is now) and because of the work of Dane Rudhyar and several others, astrology was stripped of predictive power. The backlash against the modern movement was created by a failure on the part of psychological astrologers to acknowledge that there is something that can be predicted and that there isn’t absolute free will. If you think you have free will in the absolute, hold your breath and you will begin to feel fate working on you to get you to gasp for air. With absolute free will you would be able to hold your breath long enough to pass out, but your body will not let you do this. Some things are beyond your control and you are not the god of your universe, else you would know the mysteries as to why you are here and what you are here for. This is something that is hard for most of us to accept. The body is bound by fate, but the spirit is not.
I don’t think though that it is helpful to think in terms of one type of astrology versus another. They really are connected to each other and are both astrology and they should be used to support each other, not denigrate and disrespect each other. As an example of this, I recently may have found a link from some of the old material that gives validity to the ideas of evolutionary astrology:
astrology-x-files.com/x-files/evolutionary-astro.html
There is much more going on than any one branch is capable of showing by itself.
Hi Curtis, good to hear your side of the story as I know you are big in the field. It’s true modern material does have the majority view but I still see predictive work all the time based on very ancient techniques such as eclipses.
I persoanlly agree with you about fate versus free will, and the psychological approach on it’s own is not my cuppa tea either.
My article here was more about refuting the cliam that “most of the astrologers under age 30 are drawn to Hellenistic techniques”. I don’t believe that and still see no ecvidence for it.
Again, I agree with you that we should be inclusive of all the various methods in astrology, but like in the field of science, it should also be acceptable to criticize each others methods without holding back for fear of offending. Thats is what astrology has lacked in comparison to other sciences.
Thanks for the link, very interesting. 10 months wait to see Steven! I’m not from a particular school, or branch of astrology but consider everything and anything if it has merits. From Hellenistic astrology I find the Lots of great value, from Evolutionary astrology, the Lunar Nodes.