Israel Horoscope

Israel Horoscope

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The revolution in Egypt and spreading unrest in the Arab world poses a threat to Middle East stability, and particularly to the hopes of peace for Israel. Pro-Western regimes around Israel are facing growing criticism from their citizens and concessions are being made in order to avert more unrest. Time to look at what’s happening ahead this year with the Israel horoscope.

There are two long term transits to the Israel chart this year, neither of them look good for peace. Pluto is opposite the Israeli Venus, and Neptune opposite their Mars. Venus in the mundane horoscope represents defeat in war, and being opposed by Pluto suggests that powerful forces outside the nations control are acting against their interests. Israel’s Venus is on a fixed star called Tejat Posterior, which Robson says is “Symbolically called the Abused or Beaten One”, but that it does give “force, energy, power and protection”.

The only other hard aspect to Venus from transiting Pluto started in 1973. On October 6, the Egyptian and Syrian armies launched a surprise attack against Israel. Pluto was exactly square the Israel Venus on 20 October. This Yom Kippur War ended on October 25 and Israel did successfully repel the Egyptians and Syrians but suffered massive losses. The Gaza War which started in December 2008, began less than three hours before a New Moon opposite the Israel Venus. So although Venus is supposed to represent defeat in war, perhaps the protection from the fixed star saves this nation somewhat.

israel-horoscopeThere are three exact oppositions from Pluto to the Israel Venus in 2011. The first was January 10, no attack but some most significant developments with the Egyptian revolution later that month, and also the election of the Hezbollah-backed Lebanese prime minister, Najib Mikati. The final Pluto-Venus opposition is in November, but it is the middle one which stands out. On 18 July, Pluto is opposite Venus, and Saturn is exactly conjunct the Israel Neptune.

The other long term transit this year is Neptune opposite the Israeli Mars. This is why I’ve called this blog “Spiritual War”. The first exact transit is 11 March, then there there are two more, in September 2011, then January 2012. The only other hard aspect from transiting Neptune to the Israel Mars was the square in 1969-70, when Palestinian groups launched a wave of attacks against Israeli targets around the world.

Neptune opposing Mars does suggest a weakening of military strength, and the position is rapidly changing now their strongest Arab ally, Mubarak has been ousted from Egypt. However, as I mentioned in a post last year, Mars is conjunct a very strong star called Regulus which indicates success in war, and this is strengthened given that Israel has Mars trine Jupiter.

It does appear that Israel is coming under increasing threat from hostile enemies, and this is supported by the astrology. The Full Moon on February 18 is conjunct the Israel Mars which should activate the longer term opposition from Neptune. Neptune opposite Mars indicates suicide attacks and religious or spiritually based battles. Some naval involvement could also be expected with Neptune ruling the navy. Pluto opposite Venus indicates opposition from powerful forces making it difficult to maintain peace.

 

167 thoughts on “Israel Horoscope

  1. The Neptune oppositions also bring to mind the credo: “By Way of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War.”

    • Hi Al, very apt. I also was thinking that with Mars on Regulus trine Jupiter that taking the initiative is more likely, a preemptive approach.

  2. From what I understand the actions in Egypt have cause the lock down of major accounts that have been funding Hamas. The action by France announced yesterday on the account siezure is evidence of same.
    Then with the mass resigination of the government leaders in Palistine which was planned will make way for the new structure that will usher in the peace deal. This is the same deal that has been on hold from 2008 and was structured by Bush and Rice which was accepted by both sides but rejected by the radical elements within Hamas.
    Those radical elements as of this week have now lost the major means of funding and we will soon see the peace deal bloom in full and fragrant very soon IMHO.

    Jamie..I did not see you respond to the video link I posted that proved the Dome of the Rock UFO/Angel was real with out a doubt. What did you think of that great bit of proof?

    Thanks

    • Hi David, you’re looking to the most positive of possible outcomes from those transits. Of course it’s possible, if enough people truly want peace. Pluto could transform and Neptune could take the ideals higher. I just don’t think enough people want that to happen. Freezing Hammas funding will not have the desired effect. The blockade is proof that these tactics only strengthen the resolve of the Palestinians in Gaza. Israel is really being squeezed, put in a most difficult position. It would seem that they have no good options. Any hostilities initiated by Israel will galvanize the Arab world, especially the younger people who at the moment would seem more interested in regime change for other reasons.

      I did watch that video about the UFO in Jerusalem, it is convincing, but even the raw footage looks convincing to me.

      • It is not just Hamas that is the problem for peace – there are very powerful elements within Israel that do not want peace but actually want a Greater Israel from the Jordan to the sea and have no interest in the creation of a Palestinian state. Israel has to a great extent put itself into this tight spot with the continuation and entrenchment of the occupation of the Palestinian territories making a two-state solution all but impossible to achieve. The occupation is also corroding Israeli society and we are seeing unprecedented attacks on freedom of speech within Israel, and attacks on the fabric of Israeli democracy. Israel has as much to worry about with what is going on within Israel as any attack from outside. Do any of these transits bring to mind the theme of self-undoing?

        • I know that Israel is “Gods Chosen People” due to their advanced , intelligent mind, i.e. the most intelligent humans on Earth that God created….BUT, there was something I read in the last few days about Israelites having “False People pretending to be Israelites”…not sure if it was from the Bible or Nostradamus….it was like certain people are “pretending to be Jews, but weren’t actually Jews” and would cause TROUBLE.
          Will try and look into it.
          Another thought comes to mind, “When fighting Monsters..don’t become a Monster yourself”
          Like…Israel became a “Fighting Force” because what happened to the Jews in the Second World War…but have they gone “overboard”???? and become the aggresssor???
          Dunno…but I really listen and respect your above comments…and I know that your are not being racist…just concerned about what is happening…Kind Regards Barb

          • The meaning of the ‘chosen people’ is not actually about being superior to anyone else, it’s about signing up to the covenant and anyone can become a Jew. I am myself Jewish and you will find many Jews within Israel and in the Diaspora who oppose the occupation and are extremely concerned about its effect on Israel as well as on the Palestinians. Check out Jewish Voice for Peace and J Street in America and any number of Israeli NGOs like the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, B’Tselem, Breaking The Silence, New Profile, Physicians For Human Rights Israel etc.

  3. Just blogged under your segment “Egypt Protests” that it just said on the radio that communications around the world could be effected due to a solor flare exploding from the sun the size of Jupitor, and its Feb 18th, the full moon, the date you mention above for Israel.
    But before that, I blogged on Marina’s segment “Braveheart” that I came across this on the internet re: 18th Feb, Full Moon:
    “The Star Regulus is in direct alignment to the Sphinx in Egypt & there is a vertical axis line thru the Earth that aligns to Polaris”
    You mention “Regulus” in your above segment.
    Jamie…if telecommunications do come down across the World…would that be a good time for someone to attack another country and we wouldn’t even hear about it??? Barb

    • Hi Barb, yes, you are here. More interesting updates. Who can sleep with Neptune involving us all.

  4. My son just told me that China’s radio communication has been effected.
    1.57pm Melbourne time. 18 feb.
    Barb

  5. Am starting to calm down…maybe nothing “bad” will happen.
    You have headed this segment “Spiritual Warfare”….every time I think of Eygpt I think of the Goddess ISIS…and she is in this group:
    Adam & Eve
    Isis and Osiris
    Jesus & Mary
    Their bloodline is SO important….just had another look at Marina’s segment titled ” February Going Ga Ga”…which could be a fight about a baby…she also mentions “Trickstar side”…”Dreamy thoughts of a soulmate”…”Goddess pregnancy”…”run up to Valintines Day”

    On a spiritual website there is much talk about the full moon Feb 18th…also, one mention about Jesus’s bloodline “Christ’s child”…with the code name “Thamor”…
    Maybe this full moon is about a conception, a spiritual war, who gets to father the baby?..good or evil?…maybe this “solor flare” is a sign”
    Barb

  6. Thanks for the comments and updates Sophie and Barb. I’ve been away from the computer for a while and will try to get back later today. Just saw the news that Iran has formally requested passage of two warships through the Suez Canal. They have not done this for over 30 years.

  7. Just checked some transits ahead using precession on SolarFire. One hour from now of course the Full Moon on Israel Mars. But Monday 21 February looks extremely hot. Neptune, Mars and Mercury all exactly sextile Israel Jupiter. Mars and Mercury opposite Israel Mars.

  8. I just cast the horoscope for the Full Moon set in Jerusalem. Ascendant on Algol square Mars.

    • What does that mean????….Please explain…as I am THICK!!!…only good at “joining dots together”…..and isn’t Charyl just a little ANGEL????…god bless her litle soul.
      Barb

      • The square aspect means tests and challenges, and Mars is aggression and war. Algol is a star in constellation Persues. It is the head of Medusa, which Persues has just cut from her body. This star is associated with violence, murder, decapitation: constellationsofwords.com/stars/Algol.html

        • Thanks Jamie.
          I am in a mad rush about to rush out the door…but HAD to tell you that there IS something about this solar flare..just came across a segment on the internet by a scientist, Ian O’Neill, entitled “No Killer Solar Flare”..this was posted in 21/6/2008…and he predicts that we are to expect solar flares in 2012, also mentions the Mayan calender/2012…look, I just scanned thru it…didn’t even get to the end to see his conclusions..will have a read of it later….I did see him ask the question, “Could the Earth be fried?
          Also, on internet Kevin Rudd telling Aussies to keep out of Bahrain. There IS going to be trouble in the Middle East isn’t there?….gotta go Barb

            • Jamie
              Am nearly out of download…will get more tomorrow and check it out then.
              I just keep thinking about Iran being on the list that USA wanted to control (after Afganistan & Iraq).
              Barb

  9. The Book of Genesis, the part where Jacob Israel blesses the Israelite/Egyptian sons of Joseph gives the clues to who the Israelites are in the future and they not are just Jews. HG Wells and other historians wrote books about the Israelites. There are books of the Tuatha deDanan tribe of Dan.

    N Korea has Saturn in Leo 28+ degrees so Full Moon conjunct too, will we see a new leader There ?

    Israel: Venus is Israel’s ruling planet. The June eclipse conjunct Pluto was op Israel’s Venus.Also eclipse wasw 150 ds from Natal Moon. The attack of the Turkish convoy was just prior.

    The January 4th eclipse node was alinged with Amman Jordan, Damascus Syria,Palestine west bank, Beirut and Jerusalem. Not a good omen. Eclipses can take long periods to actualize.
    Hezbollah said they are preparing to be attacked.
    Full Moon on Israel’s Mars may be the trigger time, this month.
    Damascus is in prophecy in the book of Isaiha, said to be the world’s oldest city, it is predicted to be destroyed. When? it doesn’t say.

    Iran’s chart doesn’t look hot for warfare now as far as I see, correct me if I am missing something about that.

    China getting radio interference is interesting , They may get a strong quake in the north. near 91 east x 43 north, 6-7 mag maybe.

    Great article and good work spotting those future transits for Israel.
    Scary times indeed
    Steve

    • Using 9:33 am, 1 February 1979 for Iran. Current transits, precessed.
      Pluto square Moon (exact 4 and 14 April) – Test and challenges, transformation of the popular mood at home (protests). Moon also represents national security needs.

      Feb 17 Jupiter conjunct AC – expanding self image, projecting it to world, favorable.
      Feb 28 Jupiter conjunct Moon – expanding national security needs, favorable.
      March 8 Jupiter sextile Mars – good for war.

      With the challenges from the Iranian protest movement, this is a brilliant move by the leaders, putting the focus on national security. The popular mood and national security both being rules by the Moon. If Iran can escalate regional tensions further and act as if in a state of war with Israel, then the public protests will loose credibility. “Unpatriotic” as the US politicians would have said to their protesting citizens during the war on terror.

      Latest news update: Egypt has agreed to allow two Iranian warships to cross through the Suez Canal – CNN.

    • oh boy! thanks for posting this Jamie
      what I find interesting here as well is the latitudes within which this is all happening – any astro thoughts on this?
      also wondering if Turkey will be twitching over this, esp if Iraq/Iran fires up – and what I wonder, if Afghanistan picks up the beat – US and UK forces already in the firing line…

  10. Hi Rob, look at the path of the January 2011 Solar Eclipse. Starts in Tunisia, ends in Afghanistan. Middle of the eclipse path over Israel.

    youtube.com/embed/6Yk1MEv9sfU

    Just been working on a 2011 Horoscope for America, June look bad. Solar eclipse conjunct Uranus, Pluto opposite Venus, Uranus conjunct IC. Interestingly the first Pluto transit opposite USA Venus was exact on January 31 2011. (Precession correction 197′).

    • thanks, had my suspicions…eclipse Mars conjunct IC+Chiron, square Saturn+Neptune, trine Moon and quinc Pluto in Egypt chart – haven’t got a chart for Tunisia….but, interesting how the shadow falls on Tunisia first and dissolves over northern Pakistan – great vid

    • Hi Jamie, nice graphics. The Sun was aligned with Yemen at the peak of the Jan 4 eclipse.
      Looking forward to reading your USA 2011 Horror scope report.

      Another place to keep on your radar is Uganda,they just had an election on friday and the opposition is threatening Cairo like protests. Kampala is aligned with the longitude of Cairo. The Saturn Jupiter opposition in March may effect that nation as Saturn crosses the natal Sun of the October 8, 1995 constitution. There are other factors also.
      Maybe you have better birth time for Uganda.
      Saturn is aligned with Dubai and the Strait of Hormuz when it hits opposition with Jupiter.
      Saturn is Rx making it stronger and is heavilly aspected at that time.

      The Egyptians would like their billions back that Hosni Barbaric helped himself to. His progressed Moon is hitting opposition with his progressed Mars now.

      • How do you work out the astrocartography, can you do it on astro.com? Saturn would also be aligned with Bahrain then I guess. Don’t have a chart for Uganda, nor Bahrain. Have ordered Book of World Horoscopes by Nick Campion. Just saw a disturbing video from Bahrain. After what has happened there, I really want to look at the astrology, most important stronghold for the US.

        Viewer discretion is advised. Search “Bahrain’s army deliberately kills peaceful protesters”

        • Came across “Saturn” in Nostradamus today…have a look, see if you can make any sense of it..if it’s relative to what is happening now in astrology:
          A scythe joined with a pond in Sagittarius,
          At the high of its ascendancy,
          Plague,famine,death from military hands,
          The century approaches its renewal.

          Interpretation: The “scythe” is the sign of Saturn, and the “pond” (or lake) maybe Aquarius. The quatrain seems to say that when Saturn is in Aquarius with Sagittarius at the noon position towards the end of a century, a terrible war will take place.

          Barb

        • Yes Astro has it. If you cast a chart for March 27th 4:42 am UT the Moon should be exactly between Jupiter and Saturn.
          Click to Africa map,,, I may be mistaken , actually the capital of Rwanda may be the spot not Kampala, could be a replay at Cairo too.

  11. From CNN. Bahrain: What’s at stake for America

    If Bahrain’s government falls, “there is no question — no ifs, ands or buts — Bahrain would become an Iranian satellite, and the Fifth Fleet would be sent packing,” Rubin predicted.

    The Obama administration is “not being too vocal on the riots in Bahrain because it’s pretty much the one country where we can’t afford regime change,” he said.

    Could U.S. officials find a new naval home in the Gulf? Possibly Qatar or the United Arab Emirates, Rubin said, but “if there’s a sense that the dominoes are falling and the United States is the big loser, then all the regional states are going to make their accommodation with Iran whether they like us or not.”

    The stakes could not be higher.

  12. Jamie
    just said on news that conflict in Middle East worsening (7.21pm Sunday)
    Jamie…is this concflict really just about the public fighting for democracy?…is the media reporting correctly?…it just dosen’t make sense to me…civilians fighting for “democracy”, but are killing each other??? Are there other things going on that we are not told?
    Barb

    • The Arab unrest started initially because of living condition, lack of the basics like food and employment. Once the protesters in Tunisia had a victory, people elsewhere felt optimistic they could make a difference. Now the main issue is about freedoms, having the right to elect their own politicians and have their voices heard. The dictators have not been listening to what their citizens want. All these citizens get satellite TV and see how free we are other places around the world.

      So that’s mainly what it is about right now. Further down the track, analysts are worried about the bigger picture, because a lot of these dictators have been funded by the US, and if these dictators fall to democracy, the citizens will not want to side with the US anymore. We are seeing this in Egypt, with the border to the Gaza strip being opened to two-way traffic tomorrow.

      • Thanks for that…explains it very well…I did wonder if food/jobs were involved…gawd…wonder what is going to happen next.
        Barb

        • That’s exactly the original cause of all this unrest. Some food vendor in Tunisia had his cart confiscated by the authorities. Food and jobs. Food is at all time record prices, all the staples, cereals and oils. Unemployment is also historically high.

  13. Jamie,
    From N.Champion’s book: Bahrain was granted independence from the UK on 14 Aug. 1971 – around 10.00 when it was braodcasted on Kuwaiti radio. Sun 20Leo 48, Moon 1 Gemini02, asc 11.17 libra ..
    Uganda : 9 oct. 1962 Kampala.

  14. In Bahrain’s chart Pluto is at 28 Virgo, so it is opposit Tr.Uranus/Scheat
    and Jupiter is at 27 Scorpio- 120 from Uranus. December Lunar eclipse squared Natal Pluto.

    • Thanks for this Gabriella, I’ve just put this chart in my file. Not surprising about something in the chart being hit by this configuration of Uranus, Nodes and lunar eclipse. I think it’s been especially dramatic for nations under the shadow of the January solar eclipse which passed from Tunisia then over to Afghanistan.

    • Not sure about this chart now. It won’t change the Pluto thing but will need to do some more research:

      “Bahrain formally declared its independence on the 15th of August, 1971, marked by the signing of a friendship treaty with the British that terminated previous agreements between the two sides.

      Although August 15 is the actual date on which Bahrain gained its independence from the British, the state does not celebrate or mark that date. Instead, the state annually celebrates the 16th of December as “National Day” to coincide with the day that former ruler Isa bin Salman Al Khalifa was coronated to the throne. As such, December 16, is a national holiday and is usually celebrated with firework displays.”

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahrain_Independence_Day

  15. Hey Jamie, I don’t know if you are into progressions but I just looked at progressed Israel.
    Mars: 29-32 Virgo at the heart of a T Square

    This opposed by Transiting Uranus 29-36 Pisces

    The Transiting nodes are squaring Prog Mars so their midpoint is right on Prog Mars and Trans Uranus.
    N Node: 29-40 Sagittarius…..S Node 29-40 Gemini
    Not sure what direction they are in on this program but they will exact soon.

    We may see sparks fly soon with these Nodes and Uranus agitating Israel’s Progressed Mars at this time.

    • Hi again Steve, I feel I’m way too busy to follow progressions. Maybe if I did they would tell me why I’m way too busy 🙂 Marina covers the progressed Moon in our clients forecasts and it does match up wonderfully with major themes and timing in the transits.

      Just did a post on Jupiter opposite Saturn and I think those Iranian warships passing through the Suez canal will turn out to be a major turning point. I’m sure Southern Lebanon is full re-stocked with missiles now, probably longer range and more accurate.

  16. Israel has created its enemies and its problems. As an occupier and coloniser Israel has always held sole responsibility and power to resolve the issue with the indigenous Palestinians. It has chosen not to. What is more interesting as a topic, I would suggest, is why Judaism in the form of Israel needs to create enemies and to sow the seeds for its own destruction. At this point in time Israel’s actions have virtually gauranteed a one state solution and that means a state with a Palestinian majority which will not be called Israel. The move toward revolution as a means to gain democracy and freedom in the Middle East just makes Israel look worse as a tyrannical, apartheid State. The only way Israel can save itself is for the Israeli people to rise up, like the Egyptians, and demand their government negotiate legitimate borders for the State. At this point in time the only potentially legitimate borders are UN mandate and even that could be argued in a court of law. Israel has every right to survive as a coloniser, just like Canada or NZ, but it must admit to the wrongs inherent in its foundation and make redress as they have done. Will it do that is my question? Can it do that given its astrological nature?

    • Good question. It was pleasing to see Israel not react to the Iranian warships off their coast, that’s a start I guess. A chart for a country evolves and that’s shown through the nature of the country, just like we evolve through out lives. This is reflected in the transits. Canada and NZ have come a long way, but they are much older than Israel.

      Looking at the Israel chart for this evolution, we see Pluto square the Lunar Nodes. Pluto is evolution and the Nodes are the karmic path. Very fitting given the history of the Jewish people. So the square present a test or challenge to evolve.

      I think the women of Israel hold the key. Lilith (strong independent women) makes a grand trine to the Ascendant (the nation itself) and Uranus (higher awareness and change).

    • Hi, from a little research in wikipedia i came up with why israel feels so threatened by it’s neighbours. Turns out that britain ruled the land that is now israel during the “british mandate”, between 1920-1948. In 1947 the UN decided to divide the area to two states, jewish and arab. The jewish state, Israel, declared independene in 1948. A Day afterwards it was attacked by 8 different arab states. It was significantly outnumbered but managed to win.

      • @Julia, apart from the fact that Wikipedia is the ‘fast food version’ of information and not reliable it is not so simple as you suggest. The British certainly occupied the country called Palestine but the UN had no right to divide that country on a religious basis to allow the creation of Israel. This was done against the will of the majority of the Palestinians. They were then colonised by Zionist armies. No doubt all of this is reflected in their chart at the time. The Jews were a tiny minority in Palestine and had no right to establish their own state, dispossessing and killing thousands of Palestinians (non-Jewish) in the process. The Palestinians, just like the indigenous Indians in the Americas and the Aborigines in Australia etc., joined with allies and fought back. Like the others they lost. Since that time Israel has continued to occupy, dispossess and colonise Palestine. Israel’s ‘right’ to exist rests solely on the same grounds as the right of the US to exist as a nation after it colonised the indigenous peoples of that land… the difference is the US gave full rights as citizens in its new State and Israel refuses to do this because it wants a religiously defined State: just as Saudi Arabia is a Muslim State, Israel wants to be a Jewish State. This isn’t democratic and it isn’t actually sustainable in a modern world. Religiously defined states are non-democratic, bigoted and backward so the concept of a Jewish Israel is at odds with a modern, civilized world.
        The Israeli occupation and colonisation of Palestine can be better understood if you study the charts of each but it is also important to have knowledge of the actual history. The Wikipedia ‘information’ is comprised of personal contributions and often biased, if not plain wrong.

        • p.s. I still think that Neptune in the 12th for Israel has a lot to do with this. In a way Israel is ‘imprisoned’ in its own unconscious, striving for an impossible balance…

  17. Thanks Jamie. Interesting comment regarding Pluto square the Lunar Nodes. My sense, astrology aside, is that the Israel ‘experiment’ was very much about a karmic path. And I could also see the women of Israel being saviours… they are the major force in human rights and peace groups at work in Israel today. Even more apt, is that the feminine energy in Judaism is strong, hidden, overpowers, subsumed by the masculine, but the true power at a deep core. And Israel could not react to the Iranian warships, that is not how they work. Israel attacks unexpectedly and secretly and would not attack something so close to their shores. Here’s hoping the spiritual energies are pulling us all toward more enlightened times.

    • It’s interesting you talk about enlightenment Ross, when all you do is use this blog to incite against Israel.

      • I fail to see how talking about realities is incitement to anything. If you had any knowledge of Israeli history you would know that their attacks are unexpected and generally done where they feel they have more control, in secret.
        And in case you did not notice the topic here was the Middle East and that of course includes Israel because it is the ‘wild card’ in the Middle Eastern deck and the regional bully. What Israel does and is is paramount in terms of what might happen in this region.
        The only ‘incitement’ factor involved for Israel is the actions of Israel itself which incite resistance from the occupied indigenous Palestinians and resentment if not hatred from the neighbours it bombs and attacks at will. It may well be Israel’s karmic path to act in this way to learn the lessons it needs to learn but sadly the path is leading to the destruction of the Israeli colonial experiment. I for one would like to see it survive and I happen to believe the only way that can happen is for people to talk honestly about what Israel is and does and to increase and maintain boycotts and sanctions. The astrological energies throw light on Israel as a nation and no doubt also throw light on where it is heading… and it doesn’t look good.

        • Again you fail to understand and mix spirituality with your own political views. And from the little i know, you can’t hold accountable just one side for the situation in the middle east. Demonizing people does not promote peace in the world, only hatred.

          • I simply don’t understand what you are saying Chris. To my mind it doesn’t demonize Americans to criticise the US for its illegal and immoral invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan just as it does not demonise Germans as a whole for the actions of the Nazis in World War Two, nor the Japanese for that matter and neither does it demonise Israel for rightly pointing out that as an occupier and coloniser setting up an apartheid state it is in the wrong.
            And by the way, Israel, as the occupier and coloniser does have all the responsibility in regard to the Palestinians just as the Americans, Canadians, Australians etc., had all the responsibility to resolve the injustices and suffering of their indigenous people. All power rested with them as it rests with Israel and only Israel can bring justice to the indigenous Palestinians. If fighting injustice and oppression is seen as demonizing then we should be lauding the Chinese for their occupation and colonisation of Tibet (no different to Israel in Palestine); the Russian occupation of Chechnya (bit more historical baggage there though) and we should support all occupations throughout history, then and now, which would make the Nazi invasions and occupations completely acceptable and all those nations held under occupation, as accountable as the Nazis! If you are going to have basic principles then you have to apply them everywhere.

  18. Am i the only person who has read the Thirteenth Tribe? The indigenous palestinians are closely related to the ancient Jews. Most of the Jewish Tribes listed in the bible are living…under their old tribal names..in Kashmir and Afghanistan. Some people i knew and lived among for a long time are the Pathans of North India…these truly are highly provably descended from the ancient Jews…and are very likeable people…as are the people of Kashmir.If anyone is really interested i can give more info. Further….i really doubt the accuracy of the libra ascendant Israel. Some people started something then…but for everyone else…all the rest of the world…Israel did not exist actually before midnight. Reading from that horoscope it is likely that September October this year will be the beginning ofsome tribulation for Israel.

    • You may be. I would be interested to read it. I suspect that the Hebrews, the original tribes following the Jewish religion, were mixed amongst the Canaanites, Egyptians and the Sumerians and Mesopotamians (modern day Iraq) from which the Hebrews originally came.
      Given the fact that Judaism, like all religions took converts there is a good chance that Palestinians, who remained in Canaan/Palestine have more links to the ancient Hebrews than most followers of Judaism.
      Interesting point about the Libra Ascendant for Israel …. it doesn’t really fit the feel of the country or the culture. Israelis ‘present’ more Arian than anything.
      It is difficult to ascribe a race or ancestry to any religion, impossible in fact, because of conversion, forced or chosen and no doubt the Pathans of North India etc., have links to Moslem Iraqis, Egyptians, Syrians etc. as much as they do to some Jews, simply because it is the race which can be traced, not the religion.

      • The Pathans…as I remember but haven’t the data with me…practise out a very ancient form of Judaism…have the right signs and symbols. They are a lovely quite wild people…shy and intelligent. I didn’t know they were jewish at the time !
        There was a great article online called Kashmir the Promised Land…with all the reasons and tribes. It has disappeared now…but I printed it in case. so could…if I can find it…scan it and send it…if i can get my scanner to work….if not i can copy out the important bits.and send to you.
        Just as a matter of interest…in case you don’t know and are interested….
        …the final understanding….the chosen race seems to be so very likely to have been the people of Tel Amarna…the chosen ones of Akhenaten….who…in those days..Was God. He was seen as the incarnation of the Sun…the source and origin of all life…( that is awful…has given rise to a lot of misunderstanding…and King Menes…the first of the line…did not claim anything like it for himself…)
        So if that is so the commandments were the laws given to them by Akhenaten. And…if is true that Moses was in fact Akhenaten himself….and the tomb of Moses is in Kashmir…when he disappeared…with the Bani Israel…it was.. to Kashmir.
        The Solar Dynasty of Egypt…the Pharaohs of the First and Middle Dynasties.. known in India as the Ikshvaku…had come from India to Sumeria originally…and were actually world emperors. The crown princes appear to have acted as governors of India until they took the throne in Egypt….so if Akhenaten went to Kashmir it is most understandable.

        A man called L.A.Waddell wrote about it..Egypt its Sumerian Origins and True Chronology and The Founders and Makers of Civilisation…..
        If you can give me an address i will send the article when found…otherwise can copy some and post here.

        • @Mary,
          That does sound fascinating. I travel a lot so posting some here or sending to my email, rosross@hotmail.com would be good.
          I think what is interesting is that the concept of a ‘chosen people’ is actually quite common whether it becomes enshrined in a religion as it has with Judaism or is just a spiritual belief. Anthropological studies from the earliest records show countless peoples, tribes, cultures which saw themselves as ‘chosen’ or ‘first’ or the ‘only ones’ or God’s people. No doubt in times of slow communication this happened naturally. This sort of belief was very common throughout the Americas and Africa when explorers first began travelling through those lands so there is nothing particular about a Jewish belief in being ‘chosen.’ The difference is that in Judaism, because the religion has endures, it has become enshrined (calcified) into the religion itself and seen as literal. Again, I do believe that many things which are meant to be seen as metaphorical are read as literal in all religions and spiritualities and therein lies the problem. It is of course ludicrous that any God worth believing in would have a ‘chosen’ group of people.
          I have read quite a few books on the origins of the Hebrews and yes, there is a solid case that the monotheistic beliefs of Judaism are not original to the Hebrews but were taken up from Akhenaton and are therefore Egyptian. Of course, even within Christianity, the word Amen, is the Egyptian word: Amon or Amun! I have also read that recent advances in the study of hieroglyphs show many religious writings, in both Judaism and Christianity (including the Lord’s Prayer) have been translated from Egyptian hieroglyphs so the source of Judaism (which is the source of Christianity) actually comes from Ancient Egypt’s religious and spiritual beliefs.
          The other thing which is overlooked is that the Hebrew tribes living in Egypt did so for generations and there was a lot of inter-marriage because the Jewish religion had not become concrete enough to dissuade people from marrying out or to encourage conversation… the Hebrew tribes were in fact Egyptians in the same way that a Spaniard can now move to America and a couple of generations later his descendants are American.
          The other interesting thing is that of course, if the biblical stories are correct, and it is debateable that the Hebrew tribes really did invade and conquer Canaan, and the Hebrew tribes were driven out of Egypt… the fact is that Canaan was an Egyptian colony at the time. It seems odd that if these tribes were driven from Egypt as the biblical story goes, they would be able to invade and occupy another part of Egypt. All interesting though.

  19. I would like to see a study of comparison of transits and progression to history to disprove Libra Ascendant for the Nation of Israel.

    So what time and ascendant do you have to replace it ?

    The ascendant is very important but is not the only point of analysis.

    Sun sign pop astrology was way overblown as all know.

    • @Steve, to be honest I don’t know enough, or have not studied enough, the chart for Israel but I will do so. I know with nations the point of ‘birth’ can be a matter for debate. I made the point I did having worked for many years with many Israelis and having spent time in Israel…. it doesn’t present as Libran energy. Not to me anyway. It may well be and no doubt the chart would reflect the additional flavours… maybe Pluto in the first house would do it… but Israelis in the individual and the nation in the general presents quite aggressively which to me isn’t Libran style.

    • @Steve,
      The chart I found for Israel has Ascendant in Scorpio, which fits much better than Libra.
      Horoscope of Israel · Israel’s natal chart

      On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion stood before the masses gathered in Tel Aviv and declared Israel’s independence:

      May 14, 1948, 4:37 pm EET, Tel Aviv, Israel
      What ‘foundation date’ does the Libra Rising have?

      On this natal chart with Neptune in the 12th one can understand the levels of denial at work in Israeli culture and with Mars, Pluto, Moon and Saturn in the 10th house it is not surprising that the ‘public image’ is one of vengeful aggression and inflexibility.

      • And with Neptune in the 12th a tendency toward collective dreams or fantasies; a sense of victimisation (a core factor in Judaism); suffering, loss and chaos. The fascinating and at times troubling thing about astrology is how often it shows that we are what we are ‘meant’ to be – poor Israel – and it is only with consciousness, either as individual or nation, that we can use the ‘energy’ at work in us as opposed to having the energy use us.

      • I’m happy with the AC of 23 Libra for Israel. We are looking for the “birth” of the nation. From Campion, p.168:

        “The meeting began at precisely 4:00 pm, as arranged, when Ben Gurion, the first prime minister, struck the table with his gavel. The audience then rose spontaneously and burst into the Hatikva, the anthem of the Zionist movement. It is clear that Ben Gurion himself regarded 4:00 pm as the critical time, noting it in his diary.”

        So exactly 4:00 pm was the critical time, chosen by Ben Gurion, or chosen for him. Ben Gurion was a Free Mason. The highly important fixed star Spica was rising at exactly 4:00 pm. This star is fundamental in Free Masonry, especially for the beginning of new projects and alignments of temples.

        • @Jamie,
          All of that makes sense except, having spent time in Israel it just doesn’t present as Libran… more Scorpionic! In terms of energy, Ben Gurion was one person, one mind and the actual announcement, when it was given to and received by the masses was 4.37 p.m. At that point the chart was energised. I would see Ben Gurion as conception and the announcement as birth and astrologically we work on birth not conception. I don’t agree with you on this one.

          • This is why fixed stars are so much more accurate than zodiac signs. Because the sign of Libra is rising Israel should be balanced and harmonious, Venus natured? This method bogs astrology down.

            For a Scorpioninc nature then you want a strong Mars and/or Pluto influence. Mars on Regulus trine Jupiter on Acumen, the sting of the Scorpions tail.

            Marina and I were married in private. The wedding chart is set for when we kissed during the ceremony, not when we announced it on the internet.

            The best way to see which chart is the best is not through interpretation because we all have such different styles. The best way is to check them against major events.

            • Yes, I agree with the synastric approach and checking against major events.
              I am not saying this is about who is right or who is wrong… astrology offers too much scope for that… but I also looked at the Fixed Stars, from the information I have and my perspective and Israel is so much more Scorpio Rising than Libra on that count as well.
              With the 4p.m. time you have Spica and Arcturus aligned with the Ascendant bringing a devotion to peace and higher will which stands out as not being something Israel has demonstrated through it’s Rising Sign ‘face’ it shows the world.
              The ‘face’ the world has seen since the State was founded is one of force of will and the use of war to force that will, sourced in the sort of fear Scorpio brings and Libra does not.
              I just don’t see it but we can agree to disagree.
              And I think there is a difference with your wedding… you ‘fix’ the time on a concrete act as part of an official ceremony which is fair enough.
              Ben Gurion banging the table may be a concrete act but it is not part of an official ‘ceremony.’ The official ‘ceremony’ is when the act is made public…. The decision to get married is conception; the ceremony itself is the act. The decision to proclaim a State is conception; the announcement to the world at large is the act. Just as we see birth as the ‘act’ which imprints the astrological energy on the individual so I think the actual, literal ’emergence’ of something is the moment the chart is energised.

            • interesting discussion and I look forward to more, especially if a post goes up around the theme

              what, I am wondering, happens R.Ross when you apply this thinking to other ‘nations’, countries, peoples etc? Is this notion of declaration to the people peculiar to the Israel/Palestine situation and made more tangible because of the presence and use of comtemporary communications media?

              Wasn’t Palestine already there before Israel, and so isnt Israels inception, no matter the moment, a change in state to Palestine, an internal bifurcation – I’m not trying to counter any argument or stance here btw, but I do wonder if one chart works to define a duality coming into being, political or otherwise, as an event indicated by key transits to that chart – and, if so, isn’t this an event as that is shared by both peoples – I wonder too if its too complex to reduce

              Is there a single moment prior to Israel’s inception that defines the Palestinian identity as a nation?

            • @Rob,

              Good questions Rob and they reflect the difficulty of it all.
              There is a settlement chart for Australia for instance and one for Federation and I think the latter is more commonly used.
              This is easier to do with historically recent nations and much harder to do with ancient ones of course.
              There is debate over which chart to use for the US although the Independence Day one is most commonly used; there’s a chart for the United Kingdom and an earlier one for England, taken from the crowning of William the Conqueror… which is correct?
              I don’t think the notion of ‘declaration’ as in making public or making concrete is peculiar to Israel/Palestine which is why there is controversy over the correct ‘date’ for the US.
              The contenders include the following:
              # 2nd July 1776. Congress passed the resolution declaring independence from Great Britain, Philadelphia, PA.
              # 4th July 1776. Declaration of Independence drawn up, agreed and (acc. some historians) signed by some or all parties. Philadelphia, PA
              # 2nd August 1776. Declaration of Independence signed by 56 delegates to Congress.
              # 3rd September 1783. Treaty of Paris signed. Formal ending of the Revolutionary War.
              # 14th January 1784. American Congress of the Confederation ratifies Treaty of Paris. Annapolis.
              # 9th April 1784. King George III ratifies Treaty of Paris.
              # 30th April 1789. First President Washington took the oath of office. New York, NY.
              Generally speaking, the public declaration is however accepted as the date for the natal chart for the US and to my mind this applies to the public declaration of Israel’s existence as opposed to Ben Gurion’s statement.
              Yes, Palestine was there but how do you choose a point in time? It’s hard enough to do it for a country half its age, England, and that is why the crowning of William the Conqueror is one choice. But only one choice.
              I think the complexity with the Israeli colonial enterprise is that unlike other colonisers Israel has not created one new nation with equal rights for all but sought to create its own separate State… religiously defined as Jewish… therefore leaving the indigenous Palestinians in limbo, occupied, colonised and stateless.
              You could make a point that Israel’s inception created a Palestinian entity except I don’t think it works…there was always a Palestinian entity, it was just occupied by someone else.Canaan/Palestine is recorded as an Egyptian colony when the Hebrews are said to have settled there; then Romans, Turks, countless others, English and now Israeli have occupied and colonised the land. Perhaps this means that the Palestinian entity has always been somewhat submerged and as you say, the creation of Israel brought about a consciousness of being Palestinian in a way it had not previously existed. I don’t know.
              What is different is the statement of a Palestinian entity which is independent and I think that comes from either the Algiers Declaration or Arafat’s.
              As to choosing a moment where a nation is defined, it’s even more difficult. I am sure in the case of Germany, which became a nation state in 1871 there was a sense of being German for countless generations before that. In the same way the Palestinians have been around for a couple of thousand years, knowing themselves as Palestinian and as much a people as the Germans were and are.
              I think there are moments of rebirth however for nations in particular and one can take a point, such as a declaration of independence or statehood, as a natal position.

            • Major events, example I’m just now looking at these various Palestine charts, they are major events for Israel. The synastry I’m finding is fairly stunning, and I’m using the Israel chart to decide which one fits best. Hopefully I’ll get is posted soonish.

  20. words, the dome of the rock, temple mount, mount sinai…gaza. The idea is place, israel’s chart defends it, their rock, so they can be a people. globalism, forces think it funny to pick on Israel for holding past heritage, so oldfashioned, they point, but elsewhere we have similar growing pains. if we aren’t Americans, germans, british what, who?

    • @Lucy, no-one is picking on Israel for anything other than its history as an occupier and coloniser. The chart may well reflect what you say but it would be metaphorical, not literal and this is exactly how orthodox Judaism saw it when the idea of the colonial enterprise of Israel was first mooted. In fact, some fundamental Jewish groups still see it this way. The reality is that all religions hold past heritage but no religion has any right to a homeland. Religions are not a race, not a people, not a nation and they don’t have land rights. If they did the Jewish homeland would be in Iraq and the Christian one would be in Palestine. You cite nationality which is very different to religion. We are Americans or Germans who practise Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc., but our religion is secondary to our nationality and confers no rights other than the equal rights of all religions to practise in freedom.The problem of Israel is not Israel per se: for it is merely another colonial enterprise like the US, Australia, Canada, NZ etc., but the fact that it seeks to be a religiously defined state like Saudi Arabia for example, and it discriminates against non-Jews.

      • “As long as people to believe obsurdities they will continue to commit atrocities…” Voltaire

  21. @Lucy, you are quite right. It is absurd to believe that one is chosen or that as a follower of a religion one has a right to someone else’s country and sadly, the absurdities in Judaism have served neither Jews nor Israelis well. All religions are however absurd, but for Judaism to try to create some mythical past in soil and stone is more absurd than most.

    • actually..tho archaeologists have been searching carefully for ages for traces of King David and Solomon they so far haven’t found any. There seems to have possibly been another misunderstanding…and if people are beginning to conclude that Greater Israel actually means the united Kingdom of Egypt and its empire then that is starting to sound reasonable.

      • From my research even Israeli historians and archeologists, because of the lack of evidence, are of the view that the Israel talked about in the Jewish religious teachings and the Bible never existed. It was a tribal encampment, one amongst many and there is doubt that not only did the Hebrews not conquer Canaan but they did not amount to much in any real terms. As we all know, stories are embellished and there is always a core of truth in them and no-one denies that the Hebrews lived in Canaan/Palestine for a time… but how long, how great is questionable. Not that it matters how long or how great their Israel was it gives no rights to land. If it did then the Italians would take back Istanbul which they founded and London which they also founded and the Greeks would definitely have Alexandria and numerous other cities. All fascinating though.

        • Ross, instead of trying to persuade us all that the bible figures never existed according to your thorough research, focus on calling your leaders to sit and talk with the israelis. I urge the israelis to do the same.
          As a science student i would love to see the genetic/archaelogical research you are basing your claims upon, and also contradictory researches to gain a broader perspective.

            • Of course Israel wants peace but it also wants all of Palestine and to rid the place of all non-Jews and the two things are mutually incompatible. Israel has been an aggressor from the time of its foundation as a colonial enterprise in Palestine. The question is: ‘Can it change.’ I think the chart suggests it can but I suspect the change will be forced on it as a one-state solution and with a Palestinian majority that state will be secular and called Palestine. And while no doubt the planets were aligned at the time Israel has attacked and invaded Lebanon twice, without cause, killing tens of thousands and littering the land with unexploded cluster bombs…. it has also bombed its other neighbours… hardly a sign of a nation which wants peace.

            • assuming the astrology student, takes a peek at her chart and sees the rather tight 10/hs/leo/mars/saturn/pluto themoon closing in, mid & just out of squsre to 7th/taurus/sun/nn conq,9th hs venus/cancer thats beckons study, the longing for recongnition of 11/hs/neptune/libra sextile the leo conjunctions, in sympathy to 8th/hs/gemini uranius & mercury….WHAT DO YOU SEE? a pussy? could it be Isreal says ‘we want peace’ they say we don’t want WW#3 They don’t want to use their 27++++ nuclear advantage.

            • @lucy,
              I don’t think any situation, nation or person is ever ‘diagnosed’ by a chart or time. The natal chart gives the flavour and this is taken into account with the history of the person or nation. If Israel really wanted peace it would have ended the occupation long ago and allowed the UN Mandate to take force: two states. It has refused to do that and so created for itself what looks like its absolute destruction… one state which will undoubtedly be called Palestine. Nuclear weapons don’t protect because you destroy yourself in using them and I don’t see that in Israel’s chart although it is certainly possible with Neptune in the Twelfth House that the level of denial and delusion at the unconscious level could be at work.

          • @Chris D., I can pull up some of this material but it is really easy for you to do it yourself. I never said the Bible figures did not exist… some certainly did… but the stories about them and the stories about events did not necessarily exist. Just do a search on Israeli archeologists and evidence for ancient Israel, plus read a few Israeli historians if you want a better feel for what the truth of it all might be. However, as I said, none of it matters, no-one, not even religions, gets dibs on a bit of land or a city after hundreds let alone thousands of years or Istanbul would still be Constantinople and it would be Italian, not Turkish. For that matter, Barcelona in Spain and Alexandria would be Greek and Alhambra and Seville in Spain would be Arab.
            As to Israel sitting down to talk, and again, their chart, which I have now looked at more closely, makes that difficult. They live with high levels of denial and delusion with a strong Eighth House and are almost condemned to suffer… the raison d’etre actually of Judaism. Not that Christianity does not also do suffering but then it is sourced in the same place but Judaism has turned it into an art form for all followers in a literal sense whereas Christianity has kept it partly metaphorical. Both sources of suffering can be found in the Egyptian Osiris/Isis myth which was clearly symbolic and metaphorical and much healthier as a result.

            • ross! is that why you dwell in the past? astrology IS about predictions, the assumption is you are here to PREACH

            • @lucy, and therein lies the core difference between us. In my book a good astrologer does not predict. A good astrologer may discuss the possibilities and energies at work but the stars impel they do not compel. I use astrology for understanding as a psychotherapeutic tool whether for an individual or a nation.

            • When we attempt to narrow down probabilities we are attempting to be specific. I think that should be the end goal of astrology as a scientific predictive tool. It’s a tool, we might as well use it. I surely did have and it helped me quite a number of times mostly on serious situations even. There might be a time that astrology is open to a wider possibilities but as the astrologers apply more cutting edge technique to their analysis, so much the better for us. When the tide rises, it lifts all boats. Let’s drink to that, shall we? Got a light beer and pizza here. 😉

  22. @lucy, I have no idea what you consider to be a waste of time, but nothing is a waste of time. We merely choose to make use of information or not. Having chided others for not talking all the time in ‘astro-speak’ I can only say I have not seen much astrological input from your side. What do you think about Israel’s Neptune in Libra in the 12th house? How does this impact the cultural psyche in terms of the ability to function rationally? Is the level of delusion and denial at work in Israeli society sourced in this powerful but ‘subconscious’ Neptune and the placement of Chiron in the First, intensifying the sense of victimhood arising from deep woundedness? How much does Scorpio on the Ascendant create a mindset in that nation that life is always an enormous battle and how much does this prevent Israel seeking or gaining peace?

  23. Ros…I have just noticed…you say something about Palestine having a horoscope. I had always extected that the Israel one was covering both. Please say what you think is the Palestine one..!

    • @Mary,
      There is one for Palestine. I thought I had seen it. Done for the proclamation by the Palestinian Liberation Organisation in 1988.

      The astrology chart for Palestine is set for the moment of the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine Liberating Organization (PLO).

      November 15, 1988, at 01:40 am EET, Jerusalem (35e14, )

      This would stand as a cosmic or energetic statement of the astrological nature of the Palestinian State as opposed to country. I will have to do a synastric of the two.

    • @Mary,
      I had a quick look, not a proper study and there is a lot of ‘fire’ and some things which could ‘work’ between the two but Palestine has Jupiter in the Tenth and Venus in the Second which will stand it in good stead to say the least.

  24. @Mary,
    After I wrote it I realised that ‘finding’ a date for Palestine would be hard because it is so ancient although I often use tarot to get times for people who do not know when they were born, or who have not asked ‘mum’ yet, and if there is still a mum to ask, my tarot time always comes out right so I suppose one could use that for Palestine.
    I don’t see how the Israel one could apply to Palestine because Palestine as a country has existed for millenia and Israel is a historically recent colonial enterprise on that land. The Egyptians referred to Palestia and Pales was the god of the ancient canaanites so finding a date for Palestine is I am sure open to interpretation. Perhaps Palestine in a cohesive sense could be dated to Roman times although one could also use the date for the UN mandate for partition since that brought Palestinians together, as a country, in opposition to the imposition of another State on their land. It would be interesting to get some input into this one and fascinating to compare the two charts. What are your thoughts?

    • @lucy,
      Your comments verge on the offensive. Not that I am offended or easily offended but if you are not prepared to make substantiated, relevant comments then you should not comment at all.
      This article, in case you missed it, is about the Middle East and the role Israel plays in peace. Israel as it stands, because of its behaviour as an occupier and coloniser, is the greatest threat to peace in the Middle East and perhaps to the world at large, at this time. Understanding that, from astrological, historical, sociological, psychological etc. perspectives is important.
      Perhaps you are Israeli, in which case you should state that; perhaps you are a supporter of Israel, right or wrong, either fundamentalist christian or jewish and you should state that, because your comments reveal that you are completely intolerant of any sort of critical debate… astrologically based or otherwise, about where Israel is at (the point of the above article in essence) at this stage.
      Until the Israeli/Palestinian issue is resolved, either through Israel negotiating legitimate borders for itself or in all of Palestine being annexed instead of occupied and colonised and one secular state created for indigenous Palestinians and Israelis, then there will remain the possibility of a war which can engulf, if not destroy the Middle East and perhaps, if nuclear weapons are used, damage the planet irrevocably. Insulting those who are prepared to discuss the issue frankly, openly and critically does nothing to save or serve Israel, if that is your goal. At this point in time there is a very good chance, given Israel’s behaviour that it will not survive… I happen to hope it does… but it will not as long as there are so many supporters who refuse to countenance any critical discussion of the part Israel has played and continues to play (astrologically or otherwise) in its potential demise.

      • Your question appeared in my inbox… thought this discussion ended long ago… my comment is nearly three months old, but anyway, courtesy requires an answer but I don’t understand your question.

        • Planets rule…the high time of Israel appears to be going over…internationally they are very much detested and seem to be realising it.
          Poor Strauss Kahn…I watched him in court the first time ( tv news of course ) and watched his thought stream occurring. “am I brought so low that I have to beg you for mercy ?…sigh of resignation…I am a Jew.”..
          I was feeling really sympathetic but a bit surprised by his attitude….that the Jews are bearing a sort of curse.
          His sidereal moon is in Pisces…so that is probably why he felt like that ….but isn’t he well educated enough to realise that much of the historical trauma of the Jews is largely baseless myth…which means up to and including the Holocaust for which there appears to be no evidence at all.
          I wish very much that the hardline Israelis might learn to love thy neighbour as thyself…perhaps if they had some real trauma behind them they might have learned it before now.

          • I think there is something of a curse attached to Judaism but I think it is one sourced in ancient beliefs and because it is religious belief, it is hard to change. I remember standing at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, actually, standing above looking at it because I refused to participate in the misogyny which required me as a woman to go to a women only section, and asking my guide what they were saying. Wailing is apt…. they were recounting a litany of wrongs done to Jews which were thousands of years old. The ‘poor me’ and ‘victim’ mentality is what has destroyed Israel, not the Palestinians. In psychological terms Jews may have had a ‘bad childhood’ but their religion has kept them locked into an unhealthy place where they have not been able to mature and move beyond it. This is combined with a religious belief of superiority which confers a massive ego and rejection of the community at large and which intensifies any slight or possibility of persecution. The Jews were not the only religious group to be persecuted… the Cathars did not survive… and neither are they the only ‘group’ to be persecuted… Romanies still are and the new target of persecution is Moslems. The belief in Judaism of one’s superiority (and it is not particular to Judaism, just more entrenched) means Jews have set themselves apart throughout history and that means they are always likely to be more of a target. Muslims and Christians living in Hindu India have the same problem. Maturity means that one takes responsibility for what happens and the holocaust, perpetrated against Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals in the main, did not happen in a vacuum. When we can accept that we play a part in all we experience we have some hope of changing it. Judaism has not been able to do this, hence Israel is the disasterous experiment that it is and was probably always doomed to fail. It’s a pity that Israelis and Jewish supporters of Israel have been enabled to act in ways which are so dysfunctional and inhumane that the nation has become the pariah that it is.

            • Neptune in the 12th would go a long way toward encouraging the level of denial at work in Judaism and Israel and Mercury and Uranus in the Eighth House intensifies the Life/Death challenges.

            • It is a sorry state of affairs. I am a holocaust denier …but even if it did happen ( which most of them were indoctrinated into believing as was everyone else by the combined efforts of British and U.S. media in particular )…even so….what harm had the Palestinians ever done to anyone ? Why atrocify a defenceless and uninvolved nation ?
              I haven’t been in Palestine since I was a child…but still remember vividly the kindness of the Palestinians…how dear they were….and large numbers of them were tent dwelling refugees….that was just before the 6 day war….and they did not deserve anything of what has happened to them.

            • @Mary,
              It depends what you mean by a holocaust denier. If you believe there was no kind of holocaust where millions were killed by the Nazis (although nothing as bad as the 40million killed by Stalin in the Russian holocaust) then I think there is plenty of historical evidence to say you are wrong. If you are a holocaust denier in that you don’t believe all of the stories and the propaganda peddled by the Jewish holocaust industry then I agree with you. There is actually no real evidence for much of the claims made, including gas ovens but the truth is, because Jewish interests have had the power to prevent open, frank discussion and the full release of documents we really do not know. It probably does not matter. People are tired of the ‘holocaust’ flag waved by many Israelis and Jews, even more so because it just makes them look absolute hypocrites given their appalling treatment of the Palestinians, who, as you say, had absolutely nothing to do with the actions of the Nazis and who, in fact, had Jews living peacefully among them, alongside Moslems and Christians, for centuries. But the propaganda holocaust story has been used, and probably needed, by Jews and Israelis to seek to justify the colonial war waged against the Palestinians and in fact, if the Israelis had been smart, not simply greedy and arrogant, they would have either created one state with equal rights for all or negotiated legitimate borders for themselves beyond the UN mandate, long ago. But a belief in superiority and the delusion which accompanies the holocaust fantasies has instead got them where they are today…. probably doomed… and all because of their own actions.

            • Ros there is a really weird reason behind what is happening and it is occult. If Israel is shaped like a dagger it is no accident…
              I will write back in a day or two with a good explanation…and it will be true.

            • Ros…and anyone else who is interested…
              What is behind Israel is, sadly, the Kalachakra.
              This is a doctrine which calls for the elimination of Jews, Christians and Muslims. What better way to strike at the heart of all of them than by occupying Jerusalem with your own people ( Khazars are a branch of the old Tibetans…next of kin and easy for the Dalai to use.)
              The Russian Jews were the spearhead of Russian Communism…Rothschild funded the Communist Revolution of China…
              Tibet has had a terrible ego problem for as long as it has been around…belief in the supremacy of Tibetan “Buddhism” over all other religious forms, made stronger by their isolation…became strong and the Armageddon doctrine which the Dalai and his surrounding clique are doing their best to activate is a result of it..with the dalai presently taking the role of antichrist world betrayer and hoping to present himself as world redeemer later…perhaps as a future Pope.
              The work began with the 13th dalai …first the toppling of the Russian Tsar and family, then the toppling of the Qing Dynasty….The Shadow of the Dalai Lama ( Trimondi ) online gives a good account of what happened.
              First and Second world wars followed…then the Balkans, then George Bush v. Afghanistan and Iraq.
              The methods used by the Tibetan monks in the dalai’s employ are not buddhistic in nature at all. More than a hundred years ago he had teams of them reciting evil mantras while pounding up millions of black sesame ( I think ) seeds…symbolising the multitudes of christians muslims and hindus who are anti dharma therefore must be killed. ( doesn’t buddhism forbid killing..?)
              The most recent round of activity has been the creation of the sinister Kalachakra sand mandalas worldwide…supposed to be for world peace but actually designed for destruction. Second technique…the dalai himself, tho base minded…uses low level tantric siddhis freely. He overpowers people…individuals, groups, masses.
              He once described his ability to create several hundred emanations of himself, each acting semi independently in the world…each, at any given time, aware of what ALL the others were doing and the central figure…the dalai himself…simultaneously aware of all of them.
              I was interested to hear this as he had recently landed one of them into me…with violence. He seems to have thought that something in my energy field would be useful for him to feed on.
              Another person described it as being overpowered by a predatorial amoeba…which mindlessly multiplies itself, engulfing and digesting its prey.
              The dagger shape of Israel has impressed me…they use ritual daggers in Tibet to pin down their victims….in particular the female goddess of Tibet…who they have pinned down with ritual daggers and built a temple on top of ( self sufficient male ego pseudo buddhist temple )
              I think it very possible that the tibetan visualisation of the pinning down of the three religions was so violent that it has taken tangible form.
              They have the final Armageddon planned for 2017….and after that I hope the worst may be over.

            • @Mary,
              An interesting scenario. I have read quite a bit on Buddhism including Tibetan and actually can’t relate to what you are saying here but nothing is impossible. While such ‘plans’ may well be hidden in Tibetan Buddhism I take little note of such things because I don’t actually believe they have the power to do anything. It’s like the cabal which is supposedly working to world government to enslave us all… I just don’t believe any group, any religion, any belief system, any ritual etc., has the power to control, enslave or destroy the world we know. I have much too much faith in the strength and integrity of human nature for that and I have much too much knowledge of the frailty and self-serving nature of human beings to ever believe they can truly be controlled. I believe Israel’s problem is very simple and very complex and while it may exist because of karmic and astrological inheritances I believe it is explained more simple as serious psychological and cultural dysfunction sourced in religious belief. The culture of Judaism is that of superiority and victimhood – they make a good pair because we cannot believe we are an innocent victim unless we believe, or our ego believes, in our own superiority. The beliefs of Judaism have done two things; they have set Jews apart from the greater community (not particular to Jews of course, many religions and sects do this)so they will remain superior, not be ‘tainted’ by exposure to inferiors and to maintain the purity of the religion and its followers, and the religion has taught that Jews have been perscuted (they haven’t) more than any other group and that their position as innocent victims is absolute. The ego-driven superiority complex will always be balanced by an ego-driven inferiority complex and the irrational and delusional nature of these complexes have been hidden because they hide beneath religious belief. This belief (all very 12th house) was the core and foundation of Israel the State and the need to defend the lie and stave off the realisation that the core beliefs of Judaism are not only racist but insane, has led to a massive level of denial of the reality of Judaism, Jewish culture, the foundation of Israel, the actions of the Israelis and their mainly Jewish supporters and the true nature of Israeli culture and society. This doesn’t make Israelis any worse than anyone else…they are no orphans in denial and abuse of others…. it just makes it harder for them to see and admit to the reality of what they are, what they do and what they have done. (Massive Eighth House challenges). It is hard enough for an individual who has found their sense of superiority in believing they are different to and better than others and in their particular persecution (which re-inforces their sense of superiority)to admit the truth about themselves let alone a religion or a nation. Israelis are trapped within a national and religious culture which makes it almost impossible for them to step down from the lofty heights where they believe they live into the stinking swamp which is the reality of the life they have come to live. In truth Israelis can only be saved from themselves by others… there are some wise, brave and rational Israelis but not enough… and yet it seems the world at large and those who call themselves friends of Israel and of Judaism, actually function as enemies. Is this an unconscious desire to bring down the followers of Judaism because of their overwheening ego, pride and arrogance? perhaps. All I know is that it sows the seeds of destruction for Israel and Israelis deserve much better. And then you have the other factor, albeit also unconscious, of a religion which demands its followers be seen as superior/innocent victims and which therefore given how long ago now was the Second World War and Nazi oppression, needs another massive tragedy about which Jews can wail (perhaps not at the wall) for another two thousand years. In other words, within Jewish culture and psyche there is a need for Israel to be destroyed in order to provide followers of Judaism with proof of their exceptionality and victimhood…. in that 12th house way, to be ‘cast out’ and imprisoned ‘through no fault of their own’ which is how it will be seen when the world imposes a one state solution on Israel and when the Palestinian majority changes the name of that state, back to Palestine. Conspiracies are interesting but I think the problem of Israel is sourced in much simpler and far more human beliefs, responses and needs.

          • Oh oh…!
            No conspiracy theory….hard fact !
            It is difficult to warn people…
            Trimondi have put it well…are really worth reading.
            My own experience…and that of a good many others…leaves me in no doubt.

            • @Mary,
              But it just doesn’t make sense, beyond the fact that it isn’t possible to control the world or anyone in it in this way. How old is Tibetan Buddhism? How old is Israel? Tibetans and Buddhists had nothing to do with the creation of the Israeli State barely half a century ago and yet this scenario has Tibetan Buddhism planning its demise? I find it as fanciful to believe that the Dalai Lama is behind such plots as I do to believe the British Royal Family is behind the plot for world government and world rulership…. however, even if either were responsible it just is not possible. It beggars belief and common sense. If one is to seek a source of power in the world today it is most definitely not the Dalai Lama it is the military industrial complex! All things are possible but to credit belief they have to make some sort of sense. In truth Israel, apart from the hundreds of thousands killed because it was created and the suffering of millions is pretty irrelevant in the history of the world. It’s likely disappearance with a one-state solution will present little more than a blip on the page of history…. it will have caused more suffering than most but much less suffering than many. But I do respect the fact that you hold to your beliefs; that is the right of each and every one of us.

            • It is, regardless, what is happening. His occult powers are terrible…and as I pointed out…he invades not just individuals ( they tend to be weak minded and holding important positions…like George Bush ) but also entire groups of people….
              He is, of course, the King of the Mongols, the King of Terror predicted by Nostradamus…the long awaited who will never return..( he is the last of his line…)
              You have not experienced his mentality and methods…I have..
              and if I saw what he was doing and could not in any way understand why he was…I have to thank the Trimondis very much for giving the reason.
              He is on his own…those of the Tibetans who did not support his egomaniac ambitions began to die suddenly or flee for their lives.
              The myth goes back to Egypt…the Tibetan Avalokiteshvara or Chenrezigs with his thousand arms is the very image of the Aten of Akhenaten. The Buddha is an amalgam of three previous Phataohs..Sesostris, Akhenaten and Tutankhamen.
              He thinks he may be of that line. It doesn’t seem likely to me…
              To understand the Egyptian connection it is helpful to read L. A. Waddells Egypt its Sumerian Origin and True Chronology…and the Founders and Makers of Civilisation…he wrote very well…
              Whether you can believe it or not it is what is happening.

            • Don’t forget the eye of Horus atop the pyramid on the American dollar bills.
              Don’t forget the Eguptian/Indian connection…it was King Menes the founder of the first dynasty of Egypt who left the Indus Valley…ex Mohenjodaro, Harappa…and went to Egypt. Don’t forget the return to India of Naram Sin..the son of Menes…aka the wild bull…whose image is shown on the Indus valley seals…who recaptured the land and founded a worldwide empire..( in short… reading Waddell is very helpful to understanding the connection.)
              Menes indicates Manjushri in the Gelugpa pantheon…his son Naram Sin ( fish god aka wild bull ) indicates Yamantaka….these are the prinipal deities of the Gelugpas..as well as Buddha ( remains of the Sesostris cult with additions fron Akhenaten and a bit more )and Chenrezigs…the Aten of egypt.
              The Jews of Kashmir must have been the clan of Joseph…was the father or grandfather of Akheneten. The fourth Buddhist council was held at the site of the grave of “Moses”…which means Akhenaten himself it seems who, when deposed from the egyptian throne appears to have retreated back to Kashmir. Don’t forget that Tibetan Buddhism originated among the Jews of Kashmir…the Tibetan ritual flaying knives are of Jewish design.
              There is a huge connection…and if this dalai has studied the black arts for centuries and has now sacrificed the People of Tibet to further himself…..then that is what has happened.

            • @Mary,
              I respect the fact you hold different beliefs. I simply do not believe that people are so easily manipulated or controlled and I really can’t see the purpose in an ancient ‘curse’ or whatever it is that required an Israel to be created and then destroyed, by anyone, even Tibetans to achieve I am not sure what. I can see the mythology and symbolism at work in what you are saying and my sense is that the same error is being made as is usually made with ancient teachings and spiritual books like the Bible, Torah etc., they are interpreted literally when they were and are only ever meant to be interpreted metaphorically.

            • There was no ancient curse requiring the making and destruction of Israel…just him targeting the heart of the world ( its 3 leading religions ) using his own kindred to do it. I am sorry if naturally you find my statements hard to take…you have not experienced the malignity and ability of that mind. I had it forced on me when young…at a time when I barely knew he existed. He began to appear to me in New Zealand…where I had grown up…first in a dream in which he was turning an ancient Iron clock backwards and I saw my brother swimming out to see and being lost. I went to see him…he was ok…but a few days later he died suddenly of no obvious cause.
              After I had been overpowered by the Dalai I realised that it was the same person. And that the death of my brother had been murder…and he did it…it seems…to create a rip in me sufficient for him to gain access.
              just to ramble on…a few of the ancient Scottish families are descended from the Kings of Tara…who went to Scotland in about 200 BC. If history is true then that makes them the descendants of Meritaten the younger…ergo…Royal Egyptian line. Some of them later got the Sacred blood line from Wales ( and don’t ask what that actually is because I don’t know )…so anyone in descent from several Scottish families is of that line. I am one of them. I think that may be at least some of the reason why I was overpowered by him for his use….because he needs to legitimise his claim in some way.
              Ros…if you are a hard headed rationalist who doesn’t believe the power of the mainly mentally retarded practitioners of the dark arts then this conversation is not for you.

            • @Mary.
              I can see you have had some challenging experiences. I am most definitely not a hard-headed rationalist and I have a very open mind in regard to what is possible or likely in this world. I do believe it is possible for human beings to be influenced by others and by energies but I don’t believe there are people in this world practising what you call dark arts per se: and even if there were I absolutely believe that human beings, when they make a conscious choice, can be completely protected from such things. I also sift experience and information and have a psychic sense of people and while I don’t believe the Dalai Lama is as godly or as goodly as those who project onto him would have him be… how could he be when he is only human … neither do I believe he is the anti-christ in disguise. But then I don’t believe in a literal anti-christ… I believe christ consciousness and any anti- to it is metaphorical, not literal… so perhaps this conversation is not for me. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts anyway.

            • You are right in one respect…people who are morally aware and reasonably well grounded are not easy for these dark forces to prey on. Weak minded people, severed from their roots.. by preference…are the ones who succumb most easily. And there are a good many of them these days. The steady erosion of religious belief, family and culture (and oh beware the new multiculturalism…it is leaving people very weak )…
              I have noticed the dalai doesn’t feel so confident with the Brits…they are too strong for him even now….
              Yes he finds plenty of people to serve him.

  25. Hi guys, this topic is always an extremely sensitive one. We covered the Gaza Flotilla Clash last year when we has the Funkastrology Facebook page. Many many comment from a diverse group including Muslims, Jews, Catholics, pro and anti Israel, in the extreme in some cases. With the exception of one astrologer, highly intelligent, but racist and sexist, it remained civil and we all gained something from it.

    What I’m trying to say is that this discussion here is good, I’ll try and get back and join in. This issue will not go away, events in the Middle East obviously make Israel the flash point. I want to get better as looking for clues in the astrology.

    • Well said Jamie.
      Which is why it is counter-productive when people don’t like what is being said to accuse others of a ‘hate-fest.’ This is a sensitive topic and unfortunately a lot of people who support Israel (right or wrong) quickly slip into such terminologies and assumptions when they cannot handle any criticism, no matter how valid or accurate.
      I happen to want Israel to survive. I also don’t want a nuclear war started in the Middle East by an irrational and desperate Israel. I also want justice for the Palestinians. I happen to believe the better one understands a situation like this, including astrologically, the more informed one’s opinion will be. The more informed the opinions of people in the world the better the chance Israel will survive, on negotiated legitimate borders; the better the chance there won’t be a war and the better the chance the Palestinians will be freed and get the justice they deserve.

  26. 11/15/88, PLO freedom, 1:40am EET 35e19. Virgo AC serves the people of Palestine as a new governing authority. The venus/libra 1st house, burdon of compromise, agreeability on palestine. Others give gifts to the 2nd/hs scorpio sun who sits behind scorpio mercury/pluto conq, that decieves so not be decieved, caught in a time warp of spyVSspy. (earth in 8th opp all scorpio 2nd/hs planets).

    Next we have 4th/hs 19/uranius/sag/conq/00/saturn/capricorn by itself is making for unease and unusal, politically consiquentual home-front, square to very strong, 7th/hs/01/mars aries. palestine does not rest it’s head on a easy pillow but feels that 7th/hs others are averse to them HAVING a house! The 28/5th/hs capricorn moon is void, VOC, as the whole chart bares out Palestine floats from crisis to crisis, not producing, accomplishing or gaining. They also use their children and are used by others as pawns, (an old phrase for-sure), neptune in capricorn digs in for the long haul, 6th/hs/NN/pisces has timely help of necessary items for the 2nd/hs/sun/etc. 9th/hs/Jupiter/02/gemini sextile/aries/mars; a ton of foreign intervention.

    • @lucy,
      This is an interesting assessment but it’s a pity you include the Israeli propaganda about ‘using children as pawns.’ The rather unpleasant claim which Israel makes of the Palestinians using their children as ‘human shields’ has never been borne out by studies made by international and Israeli human rights or aid agencies. However, there is evidence that Israel has used Palestinian children as human shields. But that is a digression.

      Some of the older interpretations and terminology in astrological readings are out of place in the modern age.

      I think particularly with an issue like this such subjective comments are best avoided. On both counts. One could equally say of Israel, as classical astrology would:

      Dispositor of the Ascendant Mars and Almuten of the Ascendant is Mars – you benefit from discipline because you are rash in deed or tongue. This can manifest as quarrelling, fighting, lying, stealing or general mayhem.

      Astrology is a bit like the Bible; it is open to selective interpretation.

    • The other interesting date for Palestine is May 15, 1948 when the Secretary General of the Arab States to the United Nations declared a State of Palestine. This makes the charts so close, using midnight, and Cairo or Gaza (the latter changes by 3 degrees) as to be almost identical with the same inner and outer issues. There is probably a healthy debate to be had as to whether this chart, which was the first to proclaim Palestine as a State (opposed to a country) is the accurate one. If it is it suggests that the ultimate solution will be one state because Palestine and Israel merely represent two sides of the one coin.

    • In some ways it might be easier to assess charts of nations from a historical perspective than it is to do it for individuals. Because we are not just our astrological selves, that is the ‘nature’ of our being and a flavouring rather than a rigid shape, other factors have to be taken into account.
      Whatever is at work in Palestine or Israel the outside factors are absolute: a civilized world will not tolerate a never-ending occupation and subjugation of the Palestinian people; continued dispossession and colonisation of the indigenous Palestinians, nor an apartheid State of Israel. The sanctions and boycotts movement is growing by the day and will, as it did in South Africa, put paid to these injustices.
      The question which astrology can possibly answer is ‘when’ this might happen. How long can Israel keep doing what it is doing is the real question? The Palestinians are powerless and whatever ‘strengths’ their chart may show they are helpless to free themselves or change the situation. The Palestinians have time, justice and numbers on their side and they will be free but the critical question beyond when, is HOW because whatever is at work in the When will dictate how bloody or not the How might be.

  27. ‘Pawn’ is a tad hackneyed, 5th/hs/capricorn/VOC moon, last aspect08/neptune/capricorn next doesn’t happen untill NN 11 pisces, that’s a whopping 4 day void! children in a capricorn 5th hs/moon are often objectified by parents, VOC parents don’t know what to do with them, infant mortality high, schools w/o merit.

    • @lucy,
      Yes, that is what I meant. The ‘older’ interps are interesting but the word use can confuse more than clarify. And the VOC events are so common I think it can be hard to put them in perspective.

  28. Ros..Thank you very much for the possible dates for a palestinian horoscope. I had thought it so difficult to determine that i had just been referring to the geodetic Palestine..Leo ascendant. On the other hand…and I haven’t made a really careful study…the very nice looking Jupiter in the Israeli horoscope was under death transits at the time when Yasser Arafat died.

    • @Mary,

      I suspect the 88 chart for Palestine is the best one to use because it was a time of greater power in the sense of Palestinians seeing themselves as a nation instead of a country. I am sure in 1948 with the partition and the Zionist war to take their land, there wasn’t much time for Palestinians to energise or receive energy from a 48 chart.
      I do believe there is a two-way effect with charts; they flavour us and we make them manifest. A bit like God really. Actually, a lot like God.
      I don’t think there is much doubt the Israelis poisoned Arafat and got in return, something more poisonous, as is the way of things. It’s ironic really that Israel was instrumental in the formation of Hamas (and Hezbollah) for that matter and both became nemesis not pawn. Be careful what you wish for.

  29. Firdaria Readings show the next 12-18 months to be times of progress for Palestine, using either the 1988 or the 1948 chart and a time of change, including issues of survival, for Israel with the potential for conflict.

    From 1988 reading-
    Planetary Period: Jupiter subperiod The Sun
    From 20 Apr 2012 to 6 Jan 2014

    This is a time of blessings. Your optimism and enthusiasm are on the rise, as you are ready to embrace new opportunities. You are popular and receive recognition for your personal traits, as well as your achievements. Others enjoy, and respond, to your radiance right now. After a period of change, you are now confident, ready to take on the world.

    From 1948 reading:
    Planetary Period: Mercury subperiod Jupiter
    From 9 Dec 2010 to 18 Oct 2012

    You can now reap the benefits of the past year or so. Hopefully you have been working hard and shouldering your responsibilities. Right now you can see light at the end of the tunnel. You are likely to have an active mind during this period as well as a yearning to expand your horizons.

    For Israel the period is a turning point demanding change:
    Planetary Period: Jupiter subperiod Saturn
    From 26 Aug 2009 to 14 May 2011

    Now is the time to consolidate on the achievements past ten years of your life. Don’t let fear rule your life. Work on your self-confidence without being too grandiose. Towards the end of this period your life is likely to change so it is up to you to make sure that you are fulfilling your destiny.

    (This suggests that the outcome rests on Israel).

    Planetary Period: Mars
    From 14 May 2011 to 14 May 2012

    Israel has been under the influence of Jupiter and that has eased the way; now it moves into the influence of Mars. This brings up issues of individuality, independence, passion, courage, vigour, aggression and survival. Therefore these traits will be more prominent in your life. It is time for a change of direction.Now you need to consolidate on the past and actively pursue your ambitions. If you are not careful then this could spark conflict if you push too hard. As long as you act with integrity and are not too aggressive then others are likely to co-operate. Nevertheless beware the damage that can be wrought by those who are threatened by your actions or who judge you lacking in uprightness.

    I suspect that we are entering a period where, over the next couple of years, the Israeli-Palestinian issue will be resolved, one way or the other.

    • This looks like a hindu Dasa Bhukti prediction cycle.
      I worked out one briefly for the midnight horoscope Aquarius ascendant one and got back..a couple of years Ketu ( dragons tail ) in the beginning….in Scorpio..at the MC..( according to my style of reading it…strictly equal house)….that sounded about right for the initial ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians…followed by 20 years of Venus…when Israel was basking in the light of international approval…followed by 6 years sun etc. .( by this time I was a convert….was Nicholas Campion thinking so kindly of Israel that the midnight reading just wasn’t suiting his ideas ?…..
      2) By this ( my) reading Israel is just reaching the end of an 18 year Rahu cycle ( north node ). Something about Rahu is that it brings great enterprise, great gains and, at the end of the cycle takes it all away again.
      This reading was good…but when it came to the six day war was tepid…yes..but not strong enough.
      Swapping into a sidereal reading 1967 was WAR !
      In any horoscope there are two streams…one tropical one sidereal. Tropical is the outer form, sidereal the inner. Both work together..

      • @Mary,
        It is interesting but I have enough trouble keeping up with the various astrological approaches without going into anything else. I think what matters at this point is what is at work in terms of astrological energies although because I believe the stars impel they do not compel I believe there are other forces at work which will impact any resolution. However, all food for thought.

        • Ros…I was truly leaping ahead too fast…that there are at least two simultaneous streams of becoming in any horoscope is too much too fast to explain. BUT…the very ancient, tried and true hindu cycle of prediction is so completely and unfalteringly accurate that no astrologer who tries to work without it is doing more than touch the surface…it is invaluable for rectifying horoscopes too.
          I thought I was unique in realising that it is perfectly accurate in the tropical zodiac too…but it turns out that I was by no means the first person to realise it…my Vedic astrology program will obligingly also give the tropical form .
          If the midnight position holds then towards the end of this year Israel will be challenged. Two years after that…if Israel was a person…it would die. Unfortunately countries do not die.
          BUT…the full moon which will be occurring in Israels progressed chart will be happening around that time too….right on its ( midnight) AC DC ( can’t I leave it there ? ) and MC IC too…so that will be spectacular And if Barack Obama is involved he will have his Saturn right on it.
          And yes I know Yasser Arafat was poisoned ( Thaalium I think I heard ) and that Abbas and Qurei were responsible and that Saeb Erekat was not responsible but was shocked and sad when it happened.

          • Hi Mary – fascinating insights, thanks….

            “if Israel was a person…it would die. Unfortunately countries do not die.”
            agreed, but, politics and politicians do and I have to question what defines Israel as a ‘country’ when it comes down to it – is it too provocative to say that Palestine is a country occupied by Israeli politics……

            • @Rob,
              Interesting point but I think one has to agree that at this point in history there is a nation called Israel, it just doesn’t have defined or legitimate borders. That nation of Israel is situated in Palestine until the Israelis do negotiate legitimate borders for themselves.
              The Israelis could do what all the other colonists have done and annex Palestine in total for a State of Israel but that State will have a Palestinian majority and I doubt it would be called Israel for long.
              Should Israel foolishly try to remove or kill all of the Palestinians it would still fail because there a millions of Palestinians in refugee camps, more than Israelis, who would be immediately returned to the One State by an outraged world.
              Vedic or otherwise it seems clear that the next couple of years are crucial to Israel’s survival.

            • The etymology of the word country… From the root Kunti in Sanskrit, goddess of origin… Gave rise to words like cunning, and so on…
              The place of our origin ultimately the same for everyone but temporary temples, such are countries are defined politically through beliefs and war, conquering and ultimately dissolution of boundaries…
              Let’s look at Neptune’s illusory definitions and the greater meanings of Christ consciousness with respect to Israel. Jews for Jesus? Isn’t it time?

            • Are you suggesting UQW that Jews should become followers of Jesus? I’m not sure I get the point of your post. Interestingly of course Jesus is an amalgamation of Egyptian and Roman and possibly Canaanite gods…. there being little or no historical or archeological evidence for a literal jesus. Neptune at work clearly. But that doesn’t mean there is not a Christ consciousness. Personally my view is that religions have done a great deal of harm and if Israelis were not fanatical about having a religious state there would have been a one state solution long ago as there was in the US, Canada, Australia, NZ and South Africa, to name some historically recent colonisers.

          • @Mary,
            I think there are differences between Vedic and Western astrology and having lived in India and looked into it I prefer the latter. Vedic is more absolute than Western with the belief that the stars compel, less free choice, in fact, not much free choice at all, whereas ‘Western’ belief is that the stars impel and we have free choice.
            And my view is that astrology cannot say when someone will die, individual or nation… I know Vedic would say you can but that is something I simply do not believe. The conditions for death can be quite clear but the actual death is never absolute.

            • Ros…I don’t think Vedic astrology teaches that the stars compel at all. Check out the vedic astrology sites for remedial measures of every kind. Lal Kitab ( online) has some wonderful remedies. For a difficult moon put siver nails into the legs of your bed for example. I am hopefully wearing a green jade ring.( cheapo)..to mitigate the effects of Mercury..the major phase of which I am in and it is dangerous !
              Seriously…I have never heard of any vedic astrologer trying to predict death.
              It is a specialty of mine. I have lost enough friends and relations to now have a very good idea of what causes it.
              Vedic does not say it…it was just me.
              I am correct tho…I predicted the death of Ariel Sharon right on time. You are right…he didn’t die actually…but really close enough.

            • Ah well Mary I am sure there are variations on the theme of Vedic as there is with Western astrology.
              Yes, I am sure it is possible to predict but of course not in absolutes.

          • And actually countries can die – Canaan did, Mesopotamia did; Kurdistan did; The USSR did; East Germany did; countless country kingdoms died in India when the British took over as they did in Africa when the Europeans invaded and colonised… countries, nations, peoples do die, or rather, in the truth of death, are transformed.
            There is sadly a very good chance that Israel will die because if the Israelis do not negotiate legitimate borders for themselves and create a legitimate State, thus freeing the Palestinians and allowing them their own State, there will be only one solution and that is a State with equal rights for all regardless of race, creed or sex. That State will have a Palestinian majority and you can bet it will not be called Israel… but have the name returned to what it was, Palestine. Jews, Moslems and Christians and atheists for that matter can live there but they will be Palestinians.

            • The two state solution is not the best for a couple of reasons. First it would deprive the Palestinians once and for all of their claim to their ancestral lands in Israel. Second…if there ever was a division and if the Israelis do what they say they want to and evict all the Palestinians presently living in Israel…then the advantage of having human shields becomes obvious…not to mention the awkwardness of having lost them. The Israelis would be a sitting target…

            • The only way Israel can survive is with a two-state solution. Israel exists as a coloniser in the same way the US, Australia, Canada etc., do and it has the right to continue to exist either by negotiating legitimte borders for itself or by having one state as the others have done. However, because Israelis want to be religiously defined as a State they can’t have a one state solution because it would be secular and with a Palestinian majority it would not be called Israel. In the reality of the world the Palestinians will not get all of their country back and the Israelis will not get all of Palestine but a two state solution is the only way Israel can survive. However, I doubt the Israelis will be wise enough to take that course so it is probably a moot point and within ten years there will be no Israel, only Palestine.
              They can’t evict all the Palestinians in Israel… they would have to kill them and even that would not succeed and world outrage would be so great there would be one state in a nanosecond. Israelis may not know it but they have absolutely no choice.
              And they are no more sitting ducks than anyone else… Israelis have made their bed of enemies but with resolution they would have no more enemies than anyone else.

  30. @Jamie,
    Yes, it is tricky. I don’t think a state has to come into existence… it hasn’t yet in any concrete sense and so one has to work with Palestine as a country, as an entity, as a nation and people. That relates I would think to the time when the Palestinians had a sense of themselves as an entity and perhaps a Palestinian astrologer would have a much better idea of when that might be. I mean, the nation state is a recent concept, early 20th century. Even Germany was not a state until the early 1900’s but there was definitely a German people….ditto for the Palestinians.

  31. Re which chart to use for Palestine: I will set up a page shortly so we can discuss this. The 1948 chart doesn’t seem useful, and Campion apparently agrees because the State of Palestine never came into existence. Also, it’s way too similar to the Israel chart, set for six hours earlier.

    That leaves the 1988 Algiers proclamation (not sure it should be relocated to Jerusalem), plus May 4 1994 for Palestinian Autonomy.

  32. May 19 2011, Barack Obama made a speech before meeting with Benjamin Netenyahu, stating that the pre 1967 borders of Israel should be reinstated.

    Transits to Israel chart:
    Lunar eclipse opposite Jupiter 50′
    Mew Moon square Pluto 60′
    Full Moon trine MC 18′
    South Node conjunct Uranus 17′
    Pluto opposite Venus 86′
    Neptune opposite Mars 91′
    Uranus conjunct DC 16′
    Saturn conjunct Neptune 31′
    Jupiter square MC 40′
    Mars square Moon 62′
    Venus square Moon 42′
    Mercury square Moon 01′
    Sun square Mars 41′
    Moon conjunct Jupiter 55′

  33. That ties in with the fact that Israel is just nearing the end of an 18 year phase of Rahu ( north node of the moon. )
    Rahu can bring great energy, great gains in its time but has the disposition to taking it all away again at the end of its phase.
    I think Israel may wish to propose war…
    But the time coming up is not so favourable for it.
    ( I am working from the government authorised midnight position…think the people’s choice one is not so accurate. )

    • What does that mean about the Rahu phase, is it the return of the North Node to the natal North Node position?

  34. Jamie…I got a query about Rahu phase in my emails but my comment and your query are not appearing here for some reason.
    Rahu phase is Hindu predictive system which I am…quite legitimately and very truly …applying in the tropical horoscope. Will be turning into rather unfavourable for Israel Jupiter in September.
    My comment….wherever it is…about Israel probably getting into war mode in the near future is from the sidereal reading…will be in Mars Saturn phase which for Israel seems to mean war. ( I read both…one tends to dominate while the other acts as substratum…in Israel the sidereal is strong.
    If you would like your own predictions done for you for a try out just say so.

    • Some problem with browser caching and comment links apparently. If you click on the post title itself everything shows up I believe.

      I do know that Vedic astrologer have a good record with prediction, which is why I use precession correction for transits. So it is similar to the methods I use. I prefer to stick to the tropical zodiac so everyone knows what I’m on about, but just correct for precession as in sidereal astrology.

  35. You all miss the point. The House of Israel receives its animating flow (Mazal) from a YHVH not from the level of EloHim, that is , from beyond creation and its manifestation within nature and time and space. Your systems all reveal lower patterns of manifestation. There is a creator – you’d better believe it.

    • Leib, are you referring to the spiritual House of Israel as different from a Nation of Israel based on physical borders, race or religion?

  36. Occuping Palestine with the help of USA, forcing the arabs to leave there Land, calling them terorists, having more than 300 nuclear bombs to go on with ower crimes and saying we are the nation of god …. That is Israel… Sooner ore later, the occupiers must swim back to Europa

  37. The world would be peaceful and better place if we destroy Israel its illegal state. US makes their foreign policies around zionists agenda and all wars they r doing just to protect Israel

  38. Interesting period with the Israel Mars return in a couple of days: “I can’t stand him. He’s a liar,” Sarkozy said of Netanyahu, according to the website.
    Obama replied, “You’re tired of him; what about me? I have to deal with him every day,” CNN

  39. That’s hilarious, Jamie;
    Did that conversation really happen, as per ‘quotes’?

    I think people forget or misinterpret(or are manipulated by their spirital authorities to believeve otherwise)=it’s not ‘few are chosen’-it’s “Few will choose”; as in consciously choose to awaken from this whole thing-at any level or non-level of existence. yea, elohim or not.
    To infinity and beyondddddddddddd…………..

  40. Uranus and PLuto are going to opp and sq the Venus/POF opp. So a change of fortune for sure and not a pretty one.

  41. You think nothing happened on 21 January 2017 concerning Israel.

    Today 22 January 2017 I read that Israel will build houses in East Jerusalem, which was uphold by the Obama Administation.

    Since Trump is president Israel will be more aggresive against his enemys.

  42. Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

    Israel horoscope:

    6-Dec-2017 028°,25’10 Sagittarius Sat 120 C-11 transit

  43. Israel.

    Progressive aspects.

    12-Dec-2017 010°,03’41 Cancer Merc 60 mutual Drac
    29-Dec-2017 028°,18’21 Gemini Ura 60 Mars
    31-Dec-2017 024°,21’43 Capricorn C–2 150 Ura

    1-Jan-2018 020°,56’51 Sagittarius Asc 45 AR09
    5-Jan-2018 005°,08’40 Scorpio C-11 120 AR04
    11-Jan-2018 012°,01’03 Aquarius Moon * ARMUS (MARS – MERC )
    12-Jan-2018 012°,02’13 Aquarius Moon 120 AR11
    12-Jan-2018 012°,02’59 Aquarius Moon 150 Black Sun
    31-Jan-2018 012°,38’40 Aquarius Moon 180 Plu
    31-Jan-2018 012°,38’43 Aquarius Moon 45 Jup

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