Rudy Giuliani Horoscope

Rudy Giuliani Horoscope

Rudy Giuliani

I have previously questioned whether Hellenistic style astrology has any real practical application for us in the 21st Century. Joseph C. Crane, M.A, author of  Astrological Roots: The Hellenistic Legacy, contacted me and has agreed for me to quote from his website.

In particular, Joseph has shown an example of the practical application of Hellenistic methods in “A Practical Beginning to Hellenistic Astrology.” In this article he uses the life of Rudy Giuliani and goes through the Hellenistic method to explain how it shows two important facets of Giuliani’s life, his prominent career as a leader, and his “noteworthy” personal life.

Joseph has done an excellent job wading through the complex Hellenistic techniques to come up with some answers, and as he says,  “The purpose of this article is to let the reader dip into the Hellenistic tradition to get a sense of its style and to decide whether to include some of it in his or her astrology practice.” I am going to show how another method can explain Giuliani’s prominent career and personal life as a comparison. To keep the playing field level, I will only look at the traditional planets, and use only one method, fixed star interpretation, an astrological method being used at the same times in history as Hellenistic astrology. Just one method, not a full interpretation.

Noteworthy Personal Life

Sun conjunct Ain in the Hyades star cluster< “Staggering increase in sexual urge, a dissolute life, excessive and licentious ways. With Sun: Evil disposition (used to be a term in astrology for homosexuality).”
Mercury on Almach “a liking for change, diversion and amusement”.
Venus on Alcyone “Not a good omen with regard to relationships to the opposite sex (homosexual). with Venus: Immoral, strong passions, disgrace through women”.
Saturn conjunct fixed star Betelgeuse in the Orion Constellation “With Saturn: Shrewd, cunning, craftily dishonest, treacherous to friends, eventful life with many ups and downs, eventual wealth but little comfort, unfavorable for domestic matters.”

Using the Hellenistic method, because the Sun is 8 degrees from Venus, “According to Hellenistic doctrine, a planet in this condition – within fifteen degrees of the Sun — is weaker than it otherwise would be and could manifest in a distorted or inconsistent way….Being within the Sun’s beams weakens an otherwise dignified Venus, giving a strong hint of instability or unpredictability.” Also, based on the Lot of Venus being in Virgo, governed by Mercury, “The testimony by Mars and Jupiter in the 12th, however, indicate a tendency to extreme (and possibly self-destructive) emotions and behavior in the sphere  of relationships and marriage.”

So from the fixed stars we get increased sexual urge, excessive, licentious, liking for change and amusement, immoral, disgrace through women, treacherous to friends, unfavorable for domestic matters, homosexuality. From Hellenistic astrology we get a distorted and inconsistent love nature (Venus) with instability or unpredictability, a tendency to extreme (and possibly self-destructive) emotions and behavior with relationships.

Rudy Giuliani Horoscope

Rudy Giuliani Horoscope

Prominence and Leadership Qualities

Sun conjunct Ain “Striving for prestige leading to power politics”.
Mercury conjunct Almach “honor, eminence…The popularity of these people will bring benefits from others.”
Venus conjunct Alcyone “eminence…ambition and endeavor, which gives preferment, honor and glory”.
Saturn conjunct Betelgeuse “indicative of great fortune, martial honors and “kingly” attributes…Placed in the angles (conjunct MC), preferment, luck, success and everlasting fame are promised.”

I’ll let you guys read through the Hellenistic interpretation of this one, it really is very complex and still does not give anywhere near the accurate description given by the stars. I am not criticizing Joseph or his interpretation. I am however very critical of Hellenistic methods. Extremely technical and long-winded, they go in a round about way and I think you can make just about anything fit because of the multitude of rules and regulations.

You can see what I am getting at by looking at the noteworthy personal life interpretation earlier. Just one method without any aspect analysis gave a far more accurate description than was obtained by using all the Hellenistic methods available.

Looking Forward, Looking Back

I see Hellenistic astrology as a corruption of ancient astrology because it is based on fixed zodiac signs with no real relationship to the cosmos. The ancients, the Egyptians, Sumerians and the Celts saw the planets against the backdrop of the stars, just as all indigenous cultures do today. By moving away from this essential relationship with the cosmos, Hellenistic astrology ignored the fundamental principle “as above, so below”. Now mainstream astrology is stuck with the hangover of Hellenistic astrology, people believe that the 12 sun signs give influence to planets and we still have all the rules about planets being strong or weak depending on which sign they are in.

How does an imagined 30 degree division on a piece of paper impart any energy to a planet? We know that the fixed stars are a source of energy, we can see then and can measure their various forms of electromagnetic energy, just as we can for the planets. We can even measure the energy coming from celestial objects we cannot see. The most recent scientific research supports the idea that the central core of the Earth is a single gigantic Iron crystal, nearly the size of our Moon.

We know Iron has great electromagnetic properties and that crystals also have special qualities. This gives us an explanation of how astrology actually works. Energy from celestial bodies, the sun, planets and stars are picked up by this giant crystal under our feet. That combined energy is processed and emitted back to us. The energy is always changes due to the motion of the planets in relation to each other and to the fixed stars, so the energy we get from our central crystal is constantly changing, explaining the changes we experience in our personal lives and in the mundane world.

So right now Mars is stationary direct within a degree of last July’s massive Solar Eclipse degree. That eclipse, the longest for the rest of our lives, was on the fixed star alpha Monoceros. In 363 AD there was another massive Solar Eclipse, the longest Solar Eclipse between 744 BC and 2186 AD. That eclipse was also on the fixed star alpha Monoceros, the “One Horned”, and it marked the end of Paganism in the Western World and cemented Christianity in the Empire. With the asteroid Atropos also with Mars now, I think it is time to cut the link to the Patriarchal domination of the past. We don’t really need to rely on strict rules and regulations in astrology. Time to bring back the magic!

Data for horoscope: Rudy Giuliani, Astrodatabank

26 thoughts on “Rudy Giuliani Horoscope

  1. yes it is him, and great to see him enjoying himself, expressing his true nature without inhibition.

  2. It was so interesting to read the Hellenistic Interp. Pretty impressive. But now that I have seen the technicalities in all their glory, it does seems to me a little like an astrological paint by numbers. Like if you follow the rules EXACTLY, mix the paints with 1 part white, 2 part red etc etc. then you will get an accurate representation of the portrait sitter. The guidelines are there, you just need a steady hand and a good technique. It doesn’t give you much room to get creative, but it does seem very accurate as far as surface appearance goes. Describing the personality of a human being.

    Modern astrology with it’s use of a wider palette of planets, asteroids, fixed stars is not really about surface representation, its about digging out the parts of the soul you can’t see, painting what’s inside. This way, there is more possibility that one Astrologer will see something completely different in a person than another and possibly bring out aspects, they may not even knew existed. But there is also room for a great deal of fantasy and the chance of being way off beam.

    The big question for most people these days seems to be, who the hell am I? Although modern astrology has its “fluffs” and “Wooo woos”, how far below the surface can Hellenistic Astrology go? How can intuition flow within such a rigid framework? I have yet to get a reading from a Hellenistic Astrologer, so maybe I am being rather unfair here.
    For myself, the more I delve into the myths of the heavens, the more amazed I am at the rich psychic inspiration and synchro mysticism it inspires.
    I just can’t be doing with “Sects” and “Zoidions”!

  3. I really appreciate your work with fixed stars, Jamie, your vision and the courage to speak about what you see. I am a vedic astrology student after most of my life studying western astrology. One of the reasons I find jyotish so fulfilling is the basis of Nakshatras – the mansions of the Moon as they are referred often, but they are the constellations from which the grahas (planets) receive their energy and, in turn, “channel” to us here on planet earth. The rasi’s (signs) are the last thing considered. The word “rasi” in sanskrit means simply a mathematical measure of 30 degrees. The signs are not conscious, meaning they are not embodied avatars, using Vedic terms – incarnations of Vishnu – i.e. the consciousness of God manifest. The signs are unconscious. They are merely the environment in which a planet does its job in our present life. More important to interpret what Nakshatra that planet is in, and what tara (star). The concept of lunar days, tithis, is the movement of the Moon through these contellations – it is much more revealing on a daily basis what energy is being beamed to us mortals on Earth than following the Sun’s movement through signs! It’s a fascinating study, to observe what the potential is, and what unfolds – the correlation can be readily seen, as you well know and report.

    It’s a complex, multi-dimensional phenomenon – and it’s my personal belief that the nakshatras are the neumenon – the center from which phenomenon and energy are generated. At this point, I think they are the genesis of archetypes. The Greeks came along and assigned earthly animal symbols to what was simple measurements of 30 degrees applied to viewing the ecliptic. As you clearly stated, other cultures already had names and assignments to the various fixed stars and constellations.

    Seems to me that looking at a person’s chart defined by earthly animal terms applies to one’s psychology and character, and serves to validate their psychology and not the spiritual core/force/potential of each individual from where they are operating – which is – how are the planets working together within each individual – how is the consciousness of God assisting in manifesting the potential in that person’s life? What is the soul’s journey, what karma is there to be worked through this time? To me, simply looking at signs doesn’t answer these questions. Just as simply looking at the Rasi chart only reveals one dimension (the body, the character, the health of that person). We use many charts (vargas) that go deeper beneath the surface. Talk about complex! But it really isn’t for it reveals so much in the process.

    The Nakshatras (constellations) are the mystical dimension of astrology – a deep and vast territory of true magick to explore – beyond the sun signs and the ecliptic realm, which, granted, has its place and purpose but…there’s so much more! I like a more universal approach! (sun conjunct uranus?)

    And this seems harmonious to your design of fixed sign astrology which is fascinating and well worth more attention and research – and discussion! I really like how you compared the two systems! And I must admit, I have never deeply studied Hellenistic astrology but I thoroughly enjoyed Joseph Crane’s lecture at the 2008 Blast conference and bought his Practical Beginning book because of it. He explained the techniques very clearly and with great humor too! But the next day was Vedic, and my heart was opened wide 🙂

    (Now I’m curious and am going to look at Rudy’s vedic chart!)

    Thank you, Jamie! Rock on 😀

    (I hope it doesn’t come across like I’m preaching vedic…I like it when connections are made in different systems ’cause Astrology is Astrology – when you get to the root of it, and it’s all beautiful!) I do struggle with getting to the point – please pardon my long-winded post!)

  4. thanks for your detailed reply Vanessa. i do think the Vedic system is a big improvement on the tropical zodiac because it takes into account the precession of the equinoxes. and i use the Nakshatras myself. what i find really interesting is that the lunar mansions are nearly exactly the same, based on the same fixed stars for the Arabic, Hindu and Chinese Moon Mansions.

    the stars in general have very similar interpretations and mythology accross all cultures.

  5. JFunky! Is that really Rudy Giuliani?

    No wonder I liked him so much when he was mayor :).

  6. Wow Vanessa, thank’s for that informative post on Vedic Astrology. I’m really fascinated by it. And I certainly want to get myself a Vedic reading at some point.
    I think a cultures astrological system is a reflection of it’s religion. I got yelled at for saying this on a forum once….But it’s so obvious!! Eastern/Reincarnation=Vedic, Western/Christians=Hellenistic, Western/Hippies=Evolutionary, Western/Agnostic=Psychological….Maybe I’m stereotyping here, but who cares. Aries, Taurus, Gemini…..;)

  7. You’re welcome Marina! I don’t think you’re stereotyping – I think you’ve made a relevant, profound and logical point there. It makes sense to me! For what captured me IS the Vendanta philosophy, the religious/devotional/Hindu aspect that appeals for its poetic and divinely beautiful (it satisfies my Neptune yearnings!) art and the science of yoga that weaves itself in, through, and all around the teachings. Jyotish is a branch of yoga, it’s a spiritual discipline and path in itself. It has brought astrology to life, inside of me. And isn’t that the whole point of any system or I guess the term is ‘model’? How can one speak for the energy if one don’t know the language and feel it? What are the planets *saying* in your heart? It’s one’s philosophy, one’s faith that colors our perspectives, be it Dieties, the myths, a psychology, what have you…I’m probably much too naive in my approach and philosophy, but there it is. I love exploring cross-cultural interpretations and the symbolic synastry. (And I love Sanskrit!!!) So it stands to reason that there will always be controversy because there are always scholars of different religions/philosophy or agnostics and scientists debating translations and the meanings of ancient teachings, and the researches go on (thankfully!) Everyone has their role in this play. I also like Jamie’s approach and philosophy – of bringing the ‘astro’ back into astrology! That’s what compelled me to share about Vedic, because the astro is there!

    Your articles are rich in knowledge; you’re in tune with Lilith and the language that you use to express what lives in/through you hits the mark! You illustrate visually and with words with such passion that others can understand clearly and that’s a wonderful gift! It just baffles me that people actually fight, and get viscious even, over which system works or not. (But religion is ultimately why people wage war, so it’s not really surprising. Let’s evolve already!) What compels me is the truth, the Universal truth I just want to get to the root of understanding, ya know? It’s the masculine and feminine, the dark and the light, the yab/yum, the Shiva/Shakti – the kundalini force of the Universe that’s being lived, shown, for us to realize and understand and expand our consciousness!

    I highly recommend a vedic reading, yes! Especially if you’re up for getting, as Dennis Harness said once, an astrological make-over!

    And I just read your fascinating article on the Ghost Moon in Lewis Carroll, Johnny Depp, Tim Burton and Hitler’s charts… that was excellent! The Penguin publication of Alice in Wonderland that I bought last year included an indepth biography of Carroll – and the story apparently came from his visits with a family that lived nearby, and it came to him while they were rowing in a boat on the Thames one day, he telling Alice a story to entertain her and her sister, and she helped in creating the story. It is reportedly based on his interractions with this young girl, Alice, whom he had contact with for many years. She was basically his muse. Questionable pedophaelia too, but a fascinating study of character, that one -Mr. Dodgson.

    You may appreciate this bit of trivia – it took the illustrator, John Tenniel, 2 years to complete the art for that book! But it gave Dodgson the time to refine his great work.

    I so enjoy both your and Jamie’s innovative expressions!

  8. There are several problems with this article. First of all Joseph Crane is not an expert on Hellenistic astrology. He has some of the techniques, but they are applied very differently and he steps outside the bounds of Hellenistic type interpretation throughout the book. He left the project when Hand left and that is where the work has been left, largely unfinished. Joseph Crane practices psychological astrology for the most part and is fairly strong in medieval techniques, but the book overall is not a very good representation of the actual practice of Hellenistic astrology at all. He and Robert Schmidt strongly disagree on so many points that I can’t enumerate them all here.

    First you must understand what the philosophy and technique is in the field before you can intelligently criticize it because as the article stands it is not much more than slander and you do a dis-service to the accurate representation and academic community. If you want to be taken seriously in the field of astrology, educate yourself about what is really going on in the various schools. I don’t put down modern astrology or any of the other branches. They all have their place, but I do say “the right tool for the job”.

    This statement:

    “I see Hellenistic astrology as a corruption of ancient astrology because it is based on fixed zodiac signs with no real relationship to the cosmos. The ancients, the Egyptians, Sumerians and the Celts saw the planets against the backdrop of the stars, just as all indigenous cultures do today. By moving away from this essential relationship with the cosmos, Hellenistic astrology ignored the fundamental principle “as above, so below”. Now mainstream astrology is stuck with the hangover of Hellenistic astrology, people believe that the 12 sun signs give influence to planets and we still have all the rules about planets being strong or weak depending on which sign they are in.”

    is missing sources. Please cite your sources as an academic would.

    What does “no real relationship to the cosmos” mean? As far as the “Egyptians, Sumerians and Celts” are concerned, unifying these as if they all believed the same thing is incorrect and misleading. There are as many different practices as there are astrologers in ancient times. Ignoring “as above, so below”?!!! Please, this is a bad joke. Get an education before making such stupid statements.

    It would help if you got into some discipline such as software engineering as I have so that you can get into the technical details and really understand what you are talking about.

    • “Please cite your sources as an academic would.”

      “The problem of creating a fixed beginning to the zodiac really arose during the Classical period, when astrologers became as much philosophers as observers, more dependent upon mathematical divisions than direct observation of the stars, and less willing to invest in individual attention to the sky as reference to older tables set up by the astrologers who went before them…There was, perhaps, a more pertinent reason why the astrologers of the early Classical period chose to ignore this matter [precession], one that suggests that by covering up this ‘inherent flaw’ of the zodiac, they were also obscuring a philosophical problem that had wider implications. Firm astrological principles had been established during the rise of Hellenistic astrology, principles that were heavily dependent upon accepting the zodiac as the pivot around which astrology turned. Classical historians generally had a way of exaggerating the antiquity of their belief systems and since the zodiac had been in existence for several hundreds of years, they were quick to view it as an essential and immutable tool that ran back through the mists of time. Within these principles Aries was commemorated as the sign of spring – it had been for thousands of years. Astrology had a marked political power during this period and astrology itself rested upon the founding principle that Aries marked the season that ushered in a new cycle of fertility and growth. But it was during the commencement of the Christian Era that precession was shifting the vernal equinox, the herald of spring, out of Aries and into Pisces, where it has remained since. What were astrologers to do? Rewrite the so-called immutable testimony of the stars and proclaim Pisces as the new starting point? The meanings of all of the signs were heavily dependent upon seasonal activities and calendrical events; this would have meant a complete re-evaluation of astrological philosophy at the very period it had come to the height of its power in the western world. And part of the reason it had become so widespread and powerful was because of the perceived antiquity of its teachings. This was a major dilemma. The zodiac – the new, improved, mathematically designed tool of astronomical reference – so essential to the Classical world, was breaking apart from its philosophical and symbolic stem. It was tempting indeed to turn a blind eye, to let some other astrologer deal with it in some future generation when it really mattered. Heavenly Imprints, Deborah Houlding.

      As for studying software engineering, I’m happy to trust in the makers of SolarFire, I can see the relationship of the planets to the cosmos, the stars, it even precesses transits for me.

      • I read Houlding’s article quite a while ago. I’ve often suspected that the zodiac was in a state of mutation until reaching it’s current form around 2200 years ago, so stating the antiquity of the zodiac in immutable form is incorrect because they are a collection of the stories / fables from the past which weren’t all created at the same time, even if the ancients wanted it to be so for integrity’s sake (Dr. Zoller has spoken at length about this on Sabaeanism). The constellations had different names (such as the Claw where Libra/Scorpio is for instance).

        However, this argument would place all of astrology in the same boat and the techniques that you are currently using for modern psychological interpretation which originally arose during the Hellenistic era such as the use of houses, aspects, dignities, etc… are equally in question if you dismiss the foundation upon which natal astrology was laid upon. It is not an excuse to dismiss the old in favor of the new; that is simply arrogance.

  9. It is not true that Hellenistic astrologers used only whole sign aspects. Definition 6 of Antiochus deals with the perfection of aspects and there are clearly different orbs specified such as the 3 degree rule for an aspect proper when the Moon is not involved (13 degrees when the Moon is involved – often stated “if the Moon should encounter [the ray] within a day and a night”). Errors like these are one of the reasons why Crane’s book wasn’t very good. Hellenistic astrology also used the fixed stars so by your own argument, Hellenistic astrology did not ignore “as above, so below”, but to use that phrase in this way is very misleading in the first place. What is really meant… because this is really an abridged statement from the Corpus Hermeticum which was longer saying that “that which is above is like what is below and that which is below is like that which is above”. The above is not “the stars”, but the eidei from the realm of Nous (the Platonic forms). It is a statement that basically means that nothing exists in creation that was not first prefigured in the realm of the spiritual world. By saying that Hellenistic astrology ignored “as above, so below” is just supreme ignorance.

  10. Hi again Curtis. Agreed that the constellations vary through time and cultures, the main point for me is that the ancients used, and indiginous cultures today use, the fixed stars as the backdrop to the planets, whereas modern astrology (based on Hellenistic astrology) uses the tropical zodiac as the backdrop to the planets. Siderealists understand the importance of fixing the zodiac to the stars, but they still rely on sign and house interpretation, and associated rules similar to the rules that follow in Hellenistic astrology.

    All I’m doing to ignoring the tropical zodiac and looking to the stars. I don’t use signs, houses or dignities, or any other rule that stems from them. I do use planetary aspects but from what I have read about Hellenistic astrology, planetary aspects were not part of the deal, only whole sign aspects: I’m not the only one doing this, and certainly not the first:

    “The great astrologer Johannes Kepler had a solution to this problem – he basically abandoned the zodiac and built his astrological system around the aspects between the planets. He thought that the zodiac itself was merely a human geometry exercise and primarily served to aid the memory of astrologers as they computed aspects in their heads”

  11. “In accordance with the various levels of reality: physical, mental, and spiritual, this relates that what happens on any level happens on every other. This is however more often used in the sense of the microcosm and the macrocosm. The microcosm is oneself, and the macrocosm is the universe.”

  12. A statement such as: “By moving away from this essential relationship with the cosmos, Hellenistic astrology ignored the fundamental principle “as above, so below”… is simply not true. The usage of fixed stars in Hellenistic era texts is all that is needed to prove the inaccuracy of your statement. As it stands, your usage of that phrase (as above, so below) in such a narrow way renders your argument shallow.

    I suggest that you have not done enough work in the traditional fields of astrology to intelligently or accurately address what is going on. In light of your lack of knowledge in this area, it would be more prudent to keep an open mind.

  13. The Hellenists did move away from that fundamental relationships with the cosmos, and the research by Deborah Houlding supports my statement: “astrologers became as much philosophers as observers, more dependent upon mathematical divisions than direct observation of the stars, and less willing to invest in individual attention to the sky as reference to older tables set up by the astrologers who went before them”

    Just because you found some reference to fixed stars in ancient Hellenistic texts doesn’t mean they placed any importance on them. They moved away from fixed star usage, the rely on rules and regulations derived from their new mathematical divisions of the zodiac.

    I’m not using a narrow interpretation of “as above, so below”, you are. “This is however more often used in the sense of the microcosm and the macrocosm.”

    • You can’t lump every astrologer from the Hellenistic era into the same boat and say that they acted in unison like this; it is just not an accurate statement. Many of them had different practices and some did use the fixed stars (The text attributed to Anonymous of 379 AD for example and Ptolemy on Phases of the Fixed Stars). Houlding is an expert on Horary astrology but she didn’t translate the Hellenistic texts. There are many statements about the nature of the fixed stars from the Hellenistic era.


      • I’m not saying fixed stars were not used during the Hellenistic era, but there is no way you can tell me that fixed stars are important to Hellenistic astrology. I am talking about Hellenistic astrology, not all the astrology that was being practiced during during the 2nd century BC to the 7th century AD.

  14. Saying “I see Hellenistic astrology as a corruption of ancient astrology” is just one more way of saying “my astrology is better than your astrology”, thinly veiled to conceal an oversized ego.

  15. Is ur site is named dark star for a reason too? Maybe because if fails to shed light?

    • Not my problem that people like you guys who invested in the Hellenistic astrology revival are not getting your money back on businesses like Delphic Oracle and translations.

      • What exactly do you think you know about the finances of my business? You’ve overstepped proper boundaries… The fact is that I’ve been in business for the last 15+ years and can promise you that Zoidiasoft Technologies will be around for the long haul. The top names in astrology such as Rob Hand have plugged my work and several companies such as Cosmic Patterns, Astrolabe, have all tried to hire me, some more than once.

  16. I’m calling it how I see it based on my research and based on the results I get. I have a healthy ego because my astrology kicks arse. Hellenistic astrology died for a reason. It’s revival has failed for a reason.

  17. I use Placidus 6.0 by Dr. Rumen Kolev and based upon the price I paid for it being offered by Astrolabe he must be rolling in it.

    • Fair enough Alan, my main point is that there was a lot of excitement about Hellenistic astrology and a lot of time, money and good work put into it. The translations are a valuable resource and I’m not knocking the hard work that has been put into it. What I am saying is that Hellenistic astrology is not proving as popular as the people promoting it would have us think. The main reason being that it simply does not give the practical results when interpreting the horoscope. That’s what I have been showing all through this blog by not relying on any sign based rules.

    • What I do not see is any practical application of these techniques on his website. This is what I have been challenging Hellenistic astrologers on. Show me your predictions, show me your interpretations of people making the news based on these techniques. Joseph has shown us how it works with Giuliani and to be totally honest, it’s a poor interpretation when compared to modern methods or even the fixed stars method I used.

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